@SOSConcern. I do think that it is worth it if you take a look at the whole picture. The educational environment, students body, professors, companies that recruit of UCLA, connections with alumni and so on. Yes there will not be those opportunities at UofA that you will find at UCLA it plain and simple. It really irks me that UofA supporters talk like the school is the Harvard of the South. Where was this support 10-15 years ago? This school is throwing money at these kids for one reason only- to up the ranking/profile of the school and that’s fine but don’t expect me to buy it. Look at where it is now- as a state funded university OOS students are at 60% and instate are 40% of the student body what does the Alabama tax payer think about that. Does an employer take into account that fact that you were admitted into the honors college?
and I am no way affiliated with UCLA what so ever… But ti sit here, say that you could get the same opportunities as what UCLA can provide is simply wrong, even the OP stated as much. What going to happen when the football gods turn on the program at Alabama? Will it still get the same level of exposure or will it be another SEC school which cares only about sports.
You make the rather large assumption that I have never been to Tuscaloosa–my family tree has roots in the south (I’m AA) and I have not only been on campus, but have spoken there on several different occasions.
The other item which is rather dramatic is the comparative diversity of each school:https://www.admissions.ucla.edu/campusprofile.htm and http://www.ua.edu/quickfacts/demographics.html
I believe @mom2collegekids has corrected some perceptions on the caliper of honors students at UA (and the pretty sizable number of students with high stats) in this thread, and @KaRU unknowing position about culture shock, as she pointed out there is no ‘culture shock’ going to UA. There are some nice southern things, sayings, food, etc that people OOS learn about, but it is a fringe positive.
@boolaHI - OK so we know you have a bias for UCLA as you admitted you have two degrees from there. None of my three degree are from either UCLA or UA. I can say I have seen and known about UA over many years both professionally and personally. I have no personal knowledge of UCLA. However the student posts from current UCLA student @Dj22state is very helpful.
For ‘full disclosure’ I have a UG student at UAB (studying nursing, very large nursing program through two doctorate degrees offered) and a UG student at UA studying civil eng. Both had very generous scholarships. We are in-state, but they both would have qualified for OOS scholarships. They will both graduate w/o any student debt. If we had a very tight budget (for room and board) they both could have been scholarship students and been commuter students to UAHuntsville (15 minutes drive from home), which has both of their degree plans. However they are attending the school of choice and a great match for them.
Several CA schools get really high ratings with an international listing (they have listed MIT as the top US school two years in a row) so that affects applications; CA is a very populous state (Hello!) and so many, many in-state applicants. The number of applicants doesn’t mean UCLA is SO superior. Since it does attract very good students, as @Dj22state has said. Alabama has many fine higher education opportunities in-state, so many fine students go to more local colleges where they get merit, have jobs/family, etc. UA is the flagship school, but many good opportunities at other universities and colleges throughout the state. For example Auburn, UABirmingham, University of South Alabama (AU has pharmacy and some other programs, UAB and USA have medical schools and other programs - PT, dental, etc), UAH is also in that top tier of fine universities, it is next to a large research park (one of the biggest in the nation) and many high tech jobs (it always makes the top 10 lists for engineering, techie, etc) and UAH has numerous PhD engineering and other programs. UA has found success with offering the OOS high stat student scholarships, and it helps fulfill the UA Mission.
@boolaHI you really talk like you have not been on UA campus recently, and you go way overboard on UCLA - IMHO… There has been a tremendous amount of new construction at UA since 2003/2004. It is a top 10 most beautiful campuses. UCLA may be very nice, but the beauty of the campus is secondary to educational opportunities and COA. With all that new construction, the faculty has grown as have program opportunities for UG students.
UA has a very fine law school, and 2013 marks the fifth consecutive year that 10 or more Alabama Law graduates have been placed in federal judicial clerkships. Alabama Law has the 11th highest percentage of graduates with Federal Clerkships in the nation, as reported by U.S. News and World Report in June 2014. Eight U.S. Supreme Court justices have addressed Alabama Law students in the last decade. Most recently, in October 2013, Justice Elena Kagan delivered a lecture to our students. Chief Justice John Roberts, Justice Clarence Thomas, and Justice John Paul Stevens visited in 2009, 2010, and 2011, respectively. The Chief Justice of Australia’s High Court delivered a lecture to Alabama Law’s students in January 2011.
So @KaRU you were a Rutger’s student (you say current in a 2006 thread you posted) - so I am assuming now you are still a young adult. If you have not attended either of these school nor lived in CA or AL, and have very limited ideas about what really is going on within these two universities and the kind of opportunities within these states. Maybe tell us your history - did you borrow money to attend Rutger’s and what is your degree and where are you living and what kind of income, and do you have student loans? Maybe you know someone like this student, that chose to attend UCLA with loans?
I have worked for two universities (in TX and AL, not UA), have graduate degrees from these two states (both in business) and an UG degree (non-business) from a private college in Milwaukee.
The cream rises to the top wherever they are. For example John Hendricks who graduated in 1974 from University of AL in Huntsville (which started as a satellite campus but now is its own University, so was pretty small in 1974) who is the founder of Discovery Channel and Discovery Communications (google him and see what Wikipedia says; oh and the Wikipedia developer also grew up in Huntsville…) UAH gave Mr. Hendricks opportunities (like he worked as a student in UAH President Grave’s office - Dr. Graves was the first UAH President). John Hendricks was able to take advantage of where he was planted, and professionals around him mentored him.
I think it is a shame that the amount of money is being very discounted by these two CC posters.
Good luck OP, and I sure hope you don’t regret your college choice decision. If you have visited both campuses, it is worth visiting again for a closer look if you truly are torn.
Making a decision on a nominal basis is one thing and I accept that portion, however to portend these schools or even cities is on the same par–is not something I will concede.
that’s something I will not concede either. However @SOSConcern Yes I am still a young adult and I did take out loans to attend Rutgers and do feel it was worth it. I am political science major econ minor and worked in both hr/ banking in NYC and it has been a fun ride. Just because you don’t live in a certain area does not mean that you don’t know what is going on there. Even looking using perceptional standpoint, there is a stigma about the south and for good reason too. Its not just Alabama its the entire south however I am not going to get into a socio-economic argument with you. Alabama has this level of exposure not because of its academics, its because of attention to the football program which mints money for the school. Nobody is telling what the op to do but getting the well rounded college experience with a chance to be successful is important
And by any metric UCLA is a far better school academically, socially, or otherwise then the University of Alabama period.
Not $160k worth. If both cost the same, then by all means pick UCLA. That’s a no-brainer. But with the real world difference in cost, UA is the best choice for most people.
Of course UCLA is a better school, and of course LA is a SoCal major city, which even a liberal college town like Tuscaloosa can’t claim (… and in Alabama to boot, some might add…). However, as stated in the first post, UCLA is not affordable for OP without large loans. In addition, at UCLA, OP will be lost in large lecture halls for most of his/her undergraduate years, will not have access to an adviser, will be in discussion sections with 30-40 people. UCLA may be a great value for instate students (and would be a better value if the UCs were funded better because right now lecture halls are packed/ over capacity, everything is impacted, etc.) and it would be perfect for a grad student, but at 55K+ per year OOS for a student who would need to take loans, it’s not worth that cost.
To give you concrete examples with common freshman classes as well as some advanced classes (to show that the budget problems mean that not only are freshman classes large, which is common outside of honors colleges at large state universities, but also advanced classes, which is less common):
The intro to economics classes at UCLA have 325-350 students, an advanced class such as econometrics has 388, introduction to game theory has 58. Organic Chemistry has 235 or 260 students. Intro to Computer Science, 315. History of Western Civilization 1B has 420 students, History of Western Civilization 1C has 120 students. History of Modern Britain, an advanced course for majors, has 60 students. American Popular culture has 120. Introduction to Psychology has 225 or 300.
Honors students at UAlabama would have the intro to economics class in a group of 30-32. Econometrics has 24 students. Game theory has 43 students. Organic chemistry is similar in size with 212 students, but then there’s a special honors lab section. Intro to CS has 75 students; Honors history of Western Civ I or II: 25 students; I couldn’t find History of Modern Britain but there was another advanced course titled History of the British Empire: 15 students; Honors intro psychology has 45 students.
The learning environment is not the same when you are part of an Honors College. First, OP would have at least one personal adviser - a person picked because they want to mentor and nurture these top students. That makes a huge difference in terms of personalization of the university experience, in being made aware of opportunities, etc. As an honors student, you get priority registration - not only can’t you be “shut out” of a class, but you can also choose the hour that suits you best or the best professor. You have special classes that are dynamic and interactive. You have special access to a lot of opportunities that just aren’t available if you’re a regular student, be it at UCLA or any other large public university that has grad students (grad students get dibs, then Honors Students. The other students don’t get to do “meaningful” work in the lab.)
That’s why, prestige or not, UCLA is not worth so much more money, especially not if OP needs extra loans, and that’s also why I’m not convinced at all that the experience will be better at UCLA.
Note that I’m not in any way affiliated with either the UCs nor UAlabama (or Alabama in general).
@MYOS1634 YEs that is true. I actually went and looked at the online class schedule. However you fail to mention that lecture (yes there are 300 students) is broken down into sections (1,2,3) and so on for example econ has 10 same thing with chemistry lecture then lab . This is very common at large universities and me being getting my degree from one (Rutgers) can attest to that. I had one lecture on one day and section meet on another…
Still, would you have 2h in a lecture hall with 300 people +1 hour with 27 students, or 3 hours with 24 or 30? And those classes with lectures of 40 or 75 have smaller discussion sections too (that’s the basic format at large state universities, indeed). As for an advanced class, which has no discussion section, isn’t 15 better than 60?
I attended a college where most classes had 15 to 24 students. It made a HUGE difference. I realize that choice is not in play here, but small classes mean discussions, a class that’s dynamic and interactive, where the students are involved, where they have to come prepared and have to have read critically, ready to defend their views - very different from a lecture class, where students sit and take notes, or at times hit a clicker button.
@MYOS1634 Well that generally the way intro classes are set up at large flagship state universities
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going from one of the most liberal areas in the county to the heart of the deep south is not going to be a huge culture shock.
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I repeat…there is no culture shock. And southern Calif is not one of the most liberal areas in the country.
But that said, the US representative of the area that includes UAlabama is a liberal female democrat.
Seriously, you have to visit. There is no culture shock. NONE, nada. However, if you were from the NE, the “shock” that you would experience would be how friendly people are. Southern Californians are already used to friendly people, so that aspect would be “just like home.”
I cannot agree. I’ll again post my links to diversity on campus–The other item which is rather dramatic is the comparative diversity of each school:https://www.admissions.ucla.edu/campusprofile.htm and http://www.ua.edu/quickfacts/demographics.html
Not only are the campuses dissimilar, the cities, the composition of the cities and their attendant amenities are stark and distinct. Please be clear, I’m not saying Tuscaloosa is not a nice city, it is, but is it world class and cosmopolitan like LA; I think anyone would be hard pressed to make that argument.
I’ve lived in Ohio, California, Alaska, New York, Washington State and Texas, and never experienced culture shock. Most people in the US are pretty similar, and what small differences in culture I did find turned out to be interesting rather than disconcerting.
In this situation, I’d go to Alabama.
I think this discussion is missing the forest for the tree: LOTS OF DEBT.
It’s not UCLA vs. UAlabama, it’s UCLA with a lot of debt and no Regents vs. UAlabama without debt and Honors.
(For instance, kaRU is right that most public universities have large lecture halls and discussion sections, as I’ve said twice, but the fact is that OP here DOES NOT have to go through the huge lecture hall problem, nor does s/he have to deal with advanced “seminars” that are twice to four times the recommended size for an advanced seminar, which is 15-24.)
It doesn’t matter in the end that LA is a bigger city, or that there’s more diversity in LA or at UCLA, not when OP would have to pay back loans until age 40 or 50 and/or put his parents’ retirement in jeopardy - because concretely that’s what we’re talking about “Oh I want to be 4 years in sunny LA, let’s jeopardize my ability to buy a house AND my parents’ ability to retire.”
Overall rankings are a bit ‘fickle’. For example Kiplinger (Feb 2015) ranked America’s 300 best college values, and Money (Aug 2014) had a special report: Best College Values. On Kiplinger top 100 public colleges, UC-Berkeley ranked # 4 and UCLA #5. UCLA’s had undergrad enrollment of 28,674, OOS total cost for UCLA was listed at $50,171/year, UCLA had 69% 4 year graduation rate, and average debt at graduation at $20,229. OP is a big outlier with a much bigger debt at graduation if s/he goes there (and then still wants to go on to graduate school). OP’s costs will be even higher if in the 31% that take longer than 4 years to finish UG degree at UCLA. UA was ranked #44 on this Kiplinger list.
Money’s issue with bang for tuition buck, had UC-Berkeley ranked at #13 and UCLA at #31. UCSD was ranked #46. We know a military family’s student who will go to UCSD as an in-state student, which weighed out the merit at other equally fine schools.
Another interesting comparison is that on Kipliger’s list, UNC at Chapel Hill was ranked # 1 for the top 100 public colleges (Kiplinger had quality measures and financial measures, so a more detailed analysis in print), while Money had it listed #40 on their list of top 50. Money’s top 50 had 17 schools with sticker price at public school price tag - ranging from $17,500 to $32,420 per year (UCLA was the highest public cost), and the private colleges on the list had sticker price ranging from $ 58,760 to $ 62,180 per year.
Money’s list was a bit more of an exclusive list, only 50 schools in their print listing - so its 17 factors reflecting the things they deem valuable and includes affordability (which I can argue most of the schools in this 50 list are not affordable to the average student); # 50 on their list was Vanderbilt (sticker price $61,110). Vanderbilt was #6 on Kiplinger’s top 50 private universities with UG enrollment of 6,835.
A realistic look at the amount of debt and how heavy a burden that is for UCLA OOS.
Money’s article pointed out some good things like “It’s not what or where you study - it’s both” and discussion of career services, college internships, etc. Money’s full list was ranking 665 (they screened out those with below-average graduation rates and financial problems). Money admits in how they ranked (in-depth look) that with out-of-state-public college tuition, they did not develop a cost and value comparison for these out-of-state students. Important dimension for OP.
UCLA’s student body size is pretty comparable to UA’s. Cost difference for OP is huge since CA is not in-state for s/he.
Amazing that so many northerners and west coasters are moving to work and retire in the South if it’s that bad. Interesting that some Alabama cities made Forbes top 20 best places to retire in the U.S. and for all the real and perceived socioeconomic problems in the South they are still a much more gracious and well mannered people than much of the rest of the country.
Feedback from a student’s visit to UCLA in April 2013 - told to plan on attending 5 years due to budget cuts which impact the number of classes available. This student, CA native, went to UGA, and it cost less or equivalent to in-state CA due to merit.