And that’s where your argument falls down for me. Michigan is NOT an Ivy, Duke or Stanford. It’s a public school in the Midwest, it’s not located in the “elite” dense Northeast or located in Palo Alto near Google, Meta, or whoever.
If I’m an AO at Michigan, for the best yield, which has been hovering around 45%, I want to take my best shot(s) sooner try to hook applicants/acceptances much earlier than those elite schools. Hook’em earlier, make them fall in love with Michigan before the “elites.” Sure, there’s plenty of “trophy hunters,” but I still would not stray from my strategy as an AO, which I’m not one.
“…find a way to resolve internally” completely ignores that there’s stiff competition in-state for the best applicants. Michigan and Michigan State compete hard against each other and they’ll always look to better their in-state competition. And not just football. Also, MSU has their Honors college, which offers in-staters or OOS’ers a pretty darn good college experience.
Again, I completely disagree with you here. It’s more than just flights, hotels, admitted student days, competitive pressure for yield between both in-state and OOS schools, there’s the social media pressure, friends, family, etc. Wait and see the IG posts of the friends with their gear on, and the inevitable “What do I put on my hat for graduation?” and on and on. I’ve lived it twice now.
You and I can agree to disagree. I’m not going to persuade you and you ill not be able to persuade me. Let’s move on. As I said, I have no kid in this cycle.
I would also add that the student is the customer paying an application fee and playing by unilateral rules set upfront by the university. Once the application is in, I see it as the university’s responsibility to live by those preset rules which means giving timely responses to EA applicants and being sensitive to the complexity of a students decision making process.
Yes, you pay a “customer fee”, but sadly this process is really not at all about the applicant. It’s all about the institution and its priorities. If you don’t like it, just don’t apply…
My daughter has had a positive sorority experience at UMich. Because your daughter is an upperclassman, I am not sure that you can appreciate how profoundly altered the social experience of college has been for underclassmen.
Creating and finding a friend group was nearly impossible for many kids last year…she isn’t a rah-rah sorority person by nature, but both of us are so glad that she rushed her freshman year. Even last semester, she had few in person classes. Living in the house became the dorm experience she never had.
I am far from pushing Greek life, but I wanted people to get a balanced review of it at Michigan.
There’s certainly lots of sororities (and frats too). Our experience is just different. It seemed every academic year, we debated whether to leave Greek life. I thought it was a waste of money and little benefit. And my D’s best friends and roommates have nothing to do with her sorority or Greek life in general, but as the cliché goes YMMV.
I’m sure mine is a minority view. And I’m OK with that.
My kid talks about how various colleges engage with their students; I, on the other hand, care more about the price tag. You’re right for OOS the price is steep and so will be considered against top privates/other steeply priced, highly ranked OOS states like UVA etc. For those in MI, VA, or GA who have access to top publics, great. For others, we are looking at the $$ costs as a major factor.
Like I said. I can be equally annoyed by the admissions process and equally excited about the student experience. My S22 made the decision to apply and as a parent who will be paying tuition and managing logistics I am "entitled’ to gripe about it. You can just ignore my post.
While understandable, I believe the offense some took to your rant was the blanket assumptions you made. I see very few expectations from parents or students feeling they “deserve” something. I do see frustration in the fact that UM tends to yield protect (which our AO has confirmed to our GC multiple times). But that’s well-known- doesn’t mean it isn’t upsetting to kids who might view UM as their top choice only to be told “we don’t really believe you yet.”
The college process is inherently unfair, becoming moreso every year. The schools (all of them, not just UM) have used the pandemic as a sword for admissions, hiding behind equity to simply pocket much more $. Which is fine. College is a business first for them, education a far second. But…that doesn’t mean that 17 year old kids who have worked very hard can’t be emotionally invested in their own outcomes. They’ve been taught and shown by these very schools that their singular goal over the last 3.5 years is to create a resume and a story for colleges. When they do that, and when they don’t get rewarded in the first stages…it’s a bit much to expect them to take a deep breath and “have patience”. Yes, that’s the ideal approach. No, it’s not rational to be able to accomplish it.
I, too, get disgusted by parents or others who compare their children to those who have been admitted and say “but MINE is better!” No. Nobody knows their whole application, or what’s on others. But to work hard and “check every box” that a college historically has accepted and be told “not yet”? Normal for a kid to feel a bit rejected.
Along those lines, our D has had a wonderful reaction to rejections or deferrals. She’s left them in the dark. Duke rejected her, and she was over it within an hour. UM and UVA deferred her. She’s still “engaged” with them in her mind, but her love for both schools has dimmed appreciably. If another school accepts her that was neck and neck prior to decisions, regardless of whether she gains admittance to UM or UVA she is likely to favor them. She’s in UNC, and while UNC was probably behind UVA and maybe a little ahead of UM prior to the EA round, it’s now far ahead in her mind. That’s simply human nature. When others reject us (or tell us “not now!”) it’s natural to be hurt. UM kicking the can past April will assuredly have a psychological effect on many who otherwise will hear from schools with good news.
In the past, UM and UVA were the rare very early notification in EA. Students found out in December. Our nephew got into UM, and effectively commited in his mind he was going before the other decisions came in. He followed them their whole basketball season almost like a student, and when he received acceptances to Northwestern he simply shrugged them off and became a Wolverine. Had he received UM’s decision after those? I’m certain he’d have gone elsewhere. So while UM of course will be just fine no matter when they release decisions, it’s not unfair to say that a process which seems them completely change up how they’ve released in the past will have a deleterious impact on applying students as a whole. The point some make is that…yes, they don’t care. Other schools do. Doesn’t make UM worse, just a bit colder in the process.
I don’t understand this comment. The ROI is indisputable for the right major and school (yes this matters for grad school). Furthermore, at 3-4% , the rate of inflation is higher than the interest. I had my older kids take out loans which I paid off so that they would graduate with credit history. Even if I was not able to do this I would not dismiss a school merely for this reason.
@sushiritto Absolutely correct. I had UMich at the top, but I now have acceptance from other colleges like UVA (echols) , UT Austin, UNC (honorscarolina), and GT and for them, I am researching seriously. I am attending admitted events, getting guidance from mentors that I am less and less thinking about UMich. I really like UVA
The advantages and what you can do with the Echols scholarship is huge. If my D received that, I think UVA would’ve shot to her #1- even over a potential Ross admittance. Congrats.
That’s wonderful! BTW, @srparent15 's son was postponed by Michigan CoE, but had an acceptance from UVA. He ultimately chose Michigan CoE, but he/she may be able to give you some input, if you need some at all.
Excellent post @sushiritto. You hit upon all the right points!
I do understand that a lot of people feel very passionately about UMich but acting like the school has no shortcomings whatsoever is myopic. Thank you for continuing to be a voice of reason on this thread (in addition to being a staunch advocate for UMich and an excellent source of information on all things Michigan).
My daughter is in a similar situation… UMich was really attractive to her, but having received actual early acceptances to UNC/Honors Carolina and UVA/Echols, and learning more about what they have to offer, her interest in Michigan has really declined. It is also so interesting that students like you and my D can be told by UVA and UNC that they are in the top 1% of all applicants, hence the honors awards, and yet get deferred from Michigan. One would think these top schools seek similar types of students to some degree but I’m sure there’s a lot of factors in the mix that we just aren’t privy to. (I am not “whining” or being entitled, just making an observation).
We got a No Soup For You letter too from Duke. DD took a bit longer than a day to get over. Maybe a week… Michigan acceptance helped . AND she is ok with rooting against Duke in b-ball now. She was fully prepared for postponed as she knows this has been Michigan process; but said if full out rejected EA she was full on rooting and donating to Ohio State . that would have been a bridge too far!
I will agree to disagree. As mentioned the only fair way to this entire process is a single release date and single student decision date like the medical residency match. But that will never happen as there are too many schools, too many applicants, and too much money at stake for these schools who have to one up each other. Students may be consumer’s but a single applicant enrolling or not will neither make or break a school.
With respect to the last point you make in the above paragraph and the social aspect in the process the above single date would remove all off that. Short of that happening ( and it never will) it will be just another thing these kids will have to deal with in this hyper need to know right now era of social availability (adults are no different sorry to single kids out). For 4-5 months Kids reveal where they’ve been accepted through the early cycles or athletic recruitments while others sit quiet waiting or waiting and dealing with rejection which some have never faced.
My simple point is the process can be mean, cruel, costly, unnecessarily drawn out and should be completely revamped…but until that’s done I wouldn’t ding U Mich if their release date were today, in a month, or at the same time as the last group of schools who release who in the eyes of many are no better than UMich.
I think the point being missed is the expectations UMich set for EA applicants.
UMich’s website explicitly states (about EA):
this fast-paced approach may fit your needs by providing you with a decision by late January
and:
Early Action provides you with a guaranteed decision date. For many students, this enables better planning.
So applicants go in expecting to know where they stand by January 31. They go the extra mile to get their application in by Nov 1. Yes, some may get deferred but the expectation that’s set if you take their words at face value is that most will get a decision “by late January”, not that most will get postponed. And from the latter group if the decision gets kicked all the way down to early April, it goes against what applicants expected when applying EA. Now suddenly UMich has gone from providing a decision early to being one of the last!
With the Ivies - we know going in that RD is late March, and that’s baked into the planning process. EA/ED on the other hand is mid Dec and the majority of applicants got an admit/denied decision by then. There was no mismatch of expectations.
I don’t think you guys are saying inherently different things. You’re both right.
The one difference, I believe, with UM is that IF they hold all decisions to April it will be a MAJOR departure from how they’ve done things in the past- and how many publics do things. Students love the fact that “you get UM EA done early, and hear earlier than many of the privates”. Take that away without any real advance warning, and you’ll have hurt feelings and negative feelings. Doesn’t make it right or wrong, just human nature.
I doubt the quality of the incoming class will be impacted in any way- UM is turning away many thousands of otherwise “qualified” candidates, and they’ll simply accept some of the ones they arguably randomly turned away. That said, there will be students who don’t attend UM who might otherwise have had the decisions been handled as in the past. Btw…I still think it is overwhelmingly likely that UM will do things similar to last year, which will make most of this moot. But alas…
I read the MIT paper on which the medical residency match is based. It’s brilliant, and I wish-wish-wish that college admissions worked the same way. But students unfortunately need to compare aid packages, etc.
And of course, we all live in the real world and that single universal release date won’t happen. Ever. We have private fiefdoms who compete with each other for “business.” So, I’m not busy worrying about the “what’s not going to happen.”
You won’t “ding” them and that’s so pleasant of you to do. But if you “check the tape,” the reality is that humans do get hurt feelings, because emotions are involved. And we’re talking about teenagers too. Just check some of the posts above, check threads from past years, when there were 3 RD release dates. Plenty of 'dings" and hurt feelings. It is what it is. We don’t all have to agree with each other.
And I’m not dinging Michigan, because my D had a first class college experience. I didn’t have to worry about things like housing, class registration, crime, etc. There was this pandemic thing, but…I’m VERY happy with Michigan, but then my D was accepted EA pre-Xmas and I didn’t have to go through the deferral process. Thank goodness.
. AND she is ok with rooting against Duke in b-ball now. She was fully prepared for postponed as she knows this has been Michigan process; but said if full out rejected EA she was full on rooting and donating to Ohio State 
