See, to me that isn’t surprising for an “over achiever” to investigate while deciding on universities that best fit them and therefore apply to, let alone for a why insert university name here essay. What you may first jump to as “coached”, those with a kid like this don’t find unusual or anything “coached” about it. If anything, mine coached ME!
And that’s a big point, IMO…I’ve seen some pretty generalized or presumptuous comments in a few posts today, and I think it needs to be remembered that just because “your” (in general) kid/s aren’t a particular way therefore resulting in certain things many might find “impossible”…doesn’t mean they aren’t out here and applying to the same very selective universities “your” kid is. In no way means this kid or that kid is “better than”, just as I taught mine.
How they roll out early results is far more barbaric than what Michigan does.
U Chicago ?Absolutely
1- ED1 ( accept, deny, defer and wait until March)
2- EA ( rare accept, some deny, many defer - then you are told to apply ED2 to learn if you really want to go there as they know they weren’t their first choice since you could have applied ED1. So here’s your second chance at comittment. If you take it we’ll see you in round 3. If you don’t take it we’ll see you in round 4 ( RD) in March but since you havn’t committed to us twice your chance of getting in is far below the RD candidates so make other ). It’s also unlikely much has changed since you applied Nov1 to the Jan 1 deadline but apply ED2 anyway because we really want to know you will come here ( since EA proves nothing - they should get rid of EA if thats how they feel).
3 - ED2 (Admit, Deny, Defer until RD)
4- RD (Admit, Deny, waitlist)
Imagine someone Applying EA, changing to ED2, being deferred to RD, and being waitlisted (not sure if this scenario is possible). Imagine how turned off to the place you would be ( maybe) if you got off the waitlist.
U Mich, while it could be frustrating doesnt come close to U chicago or other places that have ED/ED2/EA and RD (and encourage EA applicant to convert their deferral to ED2 - not sure how many EA deferrals get in in ED2 if they decide to go that route but few get in if they stick with their deferral into the RD round.
We attended an AO’s visit from Northwestern during the pandemic (it was outside in late spring, really great ideas from some of these schools) and she was very clear that they read enough essays to know 1) when it was not written by a student 2) when they are simply changing a few sentences to fit their own school (which she suprisingly didn’t mind…said these kids are writing so much that if they have an essay that tells the school who they are, by all means recycle it) 3) when the student is blatantly pandering. I would suspect UM AOs are no different.
She also said that ECs are pretty easy to decipher, based on depth and interest, and that they truly were looking for kids with varied interests. She referenced a recently admitted student whose ECs were athletics and lifeguard at the same pool for five years, slowly moving up the ladder at that pool. She said that it showed committment, the fact that others respected her presence and her effort, and a person dedicated to doing what they loved as opposed to “building out their resume”. Now, MIT and Harvard might not agree, but based on many of the UM acceptances I suspect they aren’t looking for box checkers.
I personally don’t like the elimination of test scores. But not for the reasons others might suspect. If there are kids from our area that submit without test scores…they did not do well and chose to not submit. Most or all of them had ample opportunity to take them, and most had ample opportunity to prep. AOs know their areas. A 1550 from our neck of the woods might equate to a 1380 somewhere else- and that’s great. But use them. In instances where they weren’t available, have that be part of the school report and do not penalize those particular students (I’m looking at you, CA). Because grades during Covid and ECs are in many instances paper thin. Students that were in-person with engaged teachers being compared to remote with little teaching…It’s an impossible time to review, and I would argue that as much information should be used as possible.
I was responding to the comment about Ohio State. For EA, you might get an answer in December, you might get one in January, or you might need to wait until some indeterminate date. So far, the uncertainty of when you will receive and EA response is not unlike at Michigan.
The part I think I barbaric is that you might get an acceptance at noon in December, when your friend does. You might get an answer in 4 pm, or 8 pm, or midnight. The decisions come out throughout the day. No one tells you if you have been deferred…you just don’t hear anything.
The same thing could happen in January. You refresh all day, only to hear nothing. Then a few days later, you might hear that you were deferred from EA and will have some decision “by early April.”
I am not sure if they say the end of March or early April, but I find the really painful part to be how decisions roll throughout the day. That’s it’s own brand of torture.
To be fair, the most recent OSU EA debacle was almost certainly a mistake. They had two dates, which they were hoping to respond to 100% of EA applicants. I actually don’t mind that- they clearly announced the days, and while it DID stink for the students who didn’t receive their information on the first one they at least had an exact day in mind as to when they would. Yes, stressful. But stressful in a different way. Give these kids dates. That way they can mentally process and prepare, and get on with life as opposed to obsessing over when each decision might be released.
Almost certainly the same as college board. Server concerns. Such a large pool that I bet they’re worried that it will crash (they have enough $ to afford a competent one, lol), and by not announcing an exact time they don’t have everyone crash it at once.
This whole process is a TOTAL hogwash and designed to traumatize young minds. The college admissions process is totally, irretrievably damaged beyond repair, and needs to be redesigned from the ground up.
The rubrics are designed in such a way that anyone can be denied from anywhere, at the total whim and fancy of young app readers with little life experience of their own, all in the name of “holistic evaluation”.
There needs to be a class action lawsuit against this emotional abuse of our children.
There, that should generate the next 1000 posts…LOL
The OSU process is much worse the UMICH for sure : decisions coming out from noon till after midnight with no email - you only figure it out if you log into the portal and you do not know if you will even get notified that day . Then a week to a few months to get notification for honors college and or scholarships .
All of this is done without any seeming relationship to when the app was submitted or really anything.
That being said : the communication re admitted students events etc has been awesome there .
And Ohio State’s EA admissions process is a great comparison to use for Michigan’s admissions process. It’s a large Midwestern public flagship with very good in-state public alternatives.
Comparing the EA process at a large public to a completely different admissions process (ED, REA, SCEA) at an elite private is just not the same thing.
True. And while holistic evaluation certainly has benefits (I certainly wouldn’t want our kids to be measured solely by their GPAs and SAT scores) - if you are aware of the origins of the holistic process, you’ll know it was designed to be murky and opaque.
Actually my point was that AO are easily manipulated by those in-the-know about their “save the world” mentality. Furthermore, despite their stated purpose to attract first generation or under-privileged students (I hate this term), they attract the opposite in many cases.
The elimination of standardized tests will only perpetuate this problem, i.e., all the soft %$^& that can be coached will have greater influence on admissions decisions.
(My intention was not to be critical of any student or to rank/compare applicants)
Not ideal, as you might have to wait for hours vs your friend who found out in 5 minutes. But… doesn’t seem as bad as not knowing what day results will be out. The anxiety, frustration and impatience of students and their parents here on CC for days on end before Jan 28th was palpable.
(disclaimer: D had the good sense to stay clear of OSU so I don’t have first hand experience of their process)
And this is what TO has evolved into. Originally to give those who couldn’t test due to COVID issues a chance to apply, it is now ( as evidenced all over these forums) “will my score help or hurt me”. Hate it when someone within the 25% for a school is advised to not submit ( which is their choice in TO). Next year if everyone does that the current 50% will become the 25% - and university reported ranges will keep going up artificially. Either make it required and unfortunately poor scorer’s will be affected or test blind and everyone will be in the same footing (yes the high scorers will be negatively affected - will assume they tested well in school anyway).
Yep. The schools benefit in triplet here. One, they bank millions more in application fees. Two, their reported admitted scores go through the roof. Three, their acceptance rate shrinks, checking another box for many of the “ranking” parameters which admins clearly chase.
Anything that takes $ out of the school’s pockets will never change. We’re TO forever, unless tests themselves cease to be accepted.
I 100% agree. I don’t care when the date is, just would love some more communication and transparency into the process. I’m 100% sympathetic to the admissions officers who have such large volume now with probably less people to review apps - I’m in the same boat at work. But it would relieve some stress if they would just say that. That being said, I don’t believe how admissions handles things will sway my daughter one bit. She’ll go where she goes regardless of communication in the admissions process so maybe at the end it all doesn’t matter
To prevent the gaming (sending in scores only if they’re believed to be high enough), colleges should become “test flexible” (or whatever term they come up with). This is how I envision it would work:
require everyone to submit scores, like in the old days
if someone is unable to take a test due to lack of test center availability, have the GC mention that in their report
if the applicant has a strong score, use that to bolster the application
if the applicant has a lower score, disregard it and consider other factors like they do now for TO applicants
This should help those applicants who may not be strong test takers but shine in other areas, while preventing the gaming that’s happening right now.
from wikipedia article about US college admissions:
“The essay should reveal a likeable and intelligent individual. It should approach humor and controversial topics with caution and balance.”
So its predetermined - only likeable individuals have a right to elite college education. Off to the gulag with the ‘unlikeable’ ones.
These essays are just a marketing and sales job putting lipstick on pigs. Who knows who writes half the applicants’ essays, and even the ones written by honest kids, if they get one sentence wrong that …gasp… makes them seem [rich/overconfident/lazy/immature/<insert AO’s pet objectionable trait here>], they go straight to the ding pile…despite having spent years working themselves to the bone to jump through the hoops this BS process requires them to jump.
I’ve also met several AOs at college fairs, and I am horrified that these 20-somethings walk around determining the fate of children probably smarter than them. The older ones with more life experience are much better, based on my conversations. The young ones wield weapons they should not have in their callow hands.
Msu is rolling. And the thing is… it wasn’t even a real option for DD in her mind when she applied. BUT, she heard from them the 1st week in November, then received Honors College invite (their honors college allows great flexibilty in scheduling) & invitation to sit for Distinguished Alumni Scholars exam. And still getting scholarship offers from them in addition. So we are so thankful. They have happily surprised us.
On the other hand. Umich looked like a fit based on SCOIR (our version of Naviance). Interestingly, traditionally UMich shows a few deferrals & lots of EA admissions per our hs SCOIR which may or not be accurate. This year was the opposite of last year - only 2 kids from DD’s HS got in & everyone else was deferred. Not a feeder, but a private hs whose kids have traditionally done well there. May just not be the right place for DD, we have one more fit and the rest were reaches. But, also know a reach may come through when a fit doesn’t since every school is looking for different qualities.
Knowsstuff
so I don’t have first hand experience of their process)