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How do those three compare in generally held public views?
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"Generally held public views" vary across a wide spectrum of factors.</p>
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Especially regarding the Ugrad business programs
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Especially does not equal exclusively.</p>
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As often happens the conversation turned to more general matters. You are right, business majors don't need to know any science.
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<p>Not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious ... But if you're being sarcastic, which one of these colleges offers such a poor science program that even a business student looking for some basic scientific knowledge would be plumb out of luck?</p>
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Generally held public views" vary across a wide spectrum of factors.
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<p>And by where the public is, and by where the student wishes to wind up geographically.</p>
<p>I think UNC, UCLA and William & Mary are peers of UM, UVA and UCB as well.</p>
<p>The OP may already know this, but I'll throw it out there anyway. An important consideration for an undergrad business student is admission--You'd enroll at UVa, Umich, or Berkeley without yet being in McIntire, Ross, and Haas. Depending on the competitiveness of the transfer-to-business process, you're taking a chance that you will not be accepted and won't in fact be in business at all. Admittedly, there may be a preferred admit option, which permits some students to know even before freshman year that they have a guaranteed transfer, but I don't know which ones (other than Ross) do this. </p>
<p>So a student ought to have a backup plan and ought to be sure he or she would be happy with an alternative degree from those schools. Or, look into business programs that admit students directly.</p>
<p>barrons,
I accept that U Michigan is an excellent state university with a good student body and I have not said otherwise. Vis-a-vis the Top 20 privates, U Michigan has a strong comparative reputation in academia although less so in the professional world as the focus there is on the quality of the graduates it produces and not the research that its graduate schools produce. If you want to characterize that as "hating the school," then I guess that we define "hate" differently. </p>
<p>Actively posting negative articles at every opportunity with scathing accompanying prose is different than saying that a school is good, but not as good as its boosters pretend. </p>
<p>As for UC Berkeley, sorry that they have been drawn into this catfight. It's a terrific school and on that I think that academics and professionals would agree. Having said that, I think that the undergraduate environment at U Virginia might be a little more student-friendly. I also think that U North Carolina and W&M should be more highly recognized for their greater focus on undergraduate studies.</p>
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UC Berkeley and U Michigan alums are far more active and vocal and generally make much, much greater (and usually unsupported) boasts about their schools' in the college firmament
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<p>Usually unsupported, eh? You're keeping track, then?</p>
<p>I'd like a count of who posts more negative article/data about a school. I think you are ahead about 10:1.</p>
<p>And I did not say the school was not as good as it claims--their own research and planning studies did that quite well for me. All my data was from internal UVa documents. Most of your anti-Um stuff is from third party comparison rankings. At least UVa is willing to admit their shortcomings and work to correct them. You just wish to ignore them.</p>
<p>Barrons seems to be suffering a "UVa complex" as many Virginians are who couldn't get into UVa against their wishes.</p>
<p>One can say that UVa per se is not a research power house as the other two, but it is truly one of the best places to go to school for the most desirable college experience.</p>
<p>To OP: I don't know why you're considering only state schools, but if you want to study in one of these schools with a private feel, more cozy environment, friendly people, caring professors, tremendous school pride, rich history and tradition and great alum, then UVa is the one.</p>
<p>barrons,
Sorry, but making a comparison using third-party data to put a school in context with other colleges is not trashing a school. If I claim that ABC College is a peer to XYZ College and do so without supporting evidence or in the face of evidence that clearly shows this not to be the case, then I would expect someone to call me on it. The numbers are what the numbers are-I'm not making them up. And I have found that empirical evidence is a lot more useful than opinion spouted by partisans.</p>
<p>"You are right, business majors don't need to know any science."</p>
<p>barrons,
Business majors need to know science to help them in their decision makings. However, business majors don't need to conduct independent science researches supervised by distinguished scientists or to take science classes taught by GSIs of Nobel prize winners.</p>
<p>IP Bear--I was being sarcastic.</p>
<p>phdinee-No, I never even considered UVa as it was all male at the time and I was from another state. The last place I would go was an all male school in what was then a very sleepy southern town. I live near there part-time now for retirement. Virginia ia a great place to retire.</p>
<p>Hawk--again everything I post about UVa is from their own mouths. Make of it what you will. I think when a school is looking at spending 9 figures to shore up an area it would be reasonable to conclude that area is not strong at present. And students should be aware of that. If it were one small dept they were looking to beef up it would be inconsequential but we are talking most of the engineering and science departments. Some were tabbed to be so weak they should be put down. That's important if you are considering that area as someone with UVa level stats has lots of good choice.</p>
<p>it's good to hear hawk defending a public school for a change. how was your experience at Ohio State hawk?</p>
<p>Hmmm okay, so moving away from public schools and giving another random example.. UPenn is a great school, wouldn't most people agree?? It has Wharton, the best business school around. But look at its engineering dept.. Likewise, UVA might not be excellent on EVERY department, but that doesn't mean that it's any less good overall. You can't bring down the whole school just because it is lacking in one area.</p>
<p>Keefer are you saying that hawkette went to tosu? If that is the case, that explains everything.</p>
<p>barrons,
If you finished reading my post, you would have realized that I knew you were being sarcastic.</p>
<p>lisieux,
Penn is not a good example. Penn is heavily bolstered by Wharton. While Wharton is on the level of Harvard, the rest of at least one level below at the undergraduate stage. The undergraduate programs at UVA are more or less on the same level - an excellent level.</p>
<p>"The undergraduate programs at UVA are more or less on the same level - an excellent level."</p>
<p>Obviously you have chosen to completely ignore reality as written by UVa people and their own consultants. Some of UVa is excellent, some of it is average and a bit of it is subpar.</p>
<p>barrons,</p>
<p>Same situations at Cal, UMich, Penn, etc.: part excellent and part less excellent. It's not only UVa.</p>
<p>IPBear. There are no subpar programs at Michigan. Some just aren't as outstanding as others.</p>