Umich vs Case Western

University Circle? This area seems to serve as one of the nicer settings available for those who want an urban college experience.

University Circle is about the only desirable part of Cleveland. ?

“At UMich you wouldn’t have the option of a degree from the engineering school; but you may or may not care about having that option.”

That is actually incorrect aquapt. Students can switch to engineering with ease at Michigan. Students from LSA can switch to Engineering with a 2.5 GPA. The only school that is difficult to switch to at Michigan is Ross. The other programs are relatively easy to switch into.

merc81, I did not say the areas around Case Western were horrible or dangerous. I said they were not desirable…certainly not compared to the University of Michigan. I spent a week on Case Western’s campus 2 years ago, and unless things have changed drastically, I would not describe University Circle as one of the nicer settings available for those who want an urban experience. Not compared to Georgetown, George Washington, NYU, UCLA, Texas-Austin, Vanderbilt, Rice etc…all of which are located in nice urban areas. Besides, University Circle only touches one part of the campus. Other areas surrounding the university are not as nice.

I find this argument entertaining. I went to OCPM on Case Westerns campus from 1982-86. We had the “flats” then which was like restaurants and Rock clubs on the Lake. It was awesome. We went to Slimans deli for pile high cornbeef by Cleveland State, Presti Donuts (now a bakery) in Little Italy(the chocolate frosted with custard inside came out at midnight and always a long line) . and for a time I lived in Conventry area and I had like one place for pizza, a supermarket, a great record store and the best place to get meatball subs. We drove to Pepper Pike for better “bars” etc etc. Chigran Falls for the best lemon custard ice cream. Looking back we all had a great time. We went to go watch Cleveland Indians games and buying the cheapest tickets and since only Detroiters showed up for Tigers against the Indians and got to sit literally anywhere you liked in the stadium. Saw Earl Klugh at the Symphony Hall.

I assume the area is much improved since then… Lol… ?.

My son’s at Michigan and has a plethora of choices to go to. But it doesn’t make his experience any better or worse then my experience or memories were. We all adjust and make our experiences our own.

But if costs were identical unless if there are other factors I would go blue. Keep in mind that Physics is extremely hard at Michigan. They sorta pride themselves on the physics and Math programs.

My DD applied to both schools for BME. We visited CW. Unlike you part of her decision making is that she did want some rah rah in her school -CW was not the school for her : ) Having said that- She did say that if she decides to go for an advanded degree she would look at CW. One of the schools she really wanted to go to and would have it we had gotten enough merit aid (U of Miami)–a number of BME students go to CW for grad school. When we went for admited students day --they said you could “get your geek on” at Case. That is the sense I got when I was there. Much different atmosphere than Michigan.

@merc81 @Alexandre

The difference actually may be in U-M’s favor when you consider that CWRU does not have a whole schools for kinesiology, architecture + urban planning, art + design, and music + theatre + dance - all of which prioritize test scores less in admissions than typical academic programs, despite contributing greatly to a university community in terms of talent, diversity, and intellect.

Statistics must be analyzed in context on order to draw conclusions. The test score difference between U-M and CWRU is therefore minimal, and may well be in U-M’s favor when comparing students with aligned academic interests.

With that all being said - the culture between these two universities is very different. The towns are very different. Is it possible for the same person to be happy at both? Yes. Is it likely? Probably not if student life is a major consideration.

Does anyone want to look more deeply into this list to see which of UM and CWRU schools may have produced Apker recipients (an award regarded as the nation’s highest honor for undergraduate physics research)?

https://www.aps.org/programs/honors/prizes/apker.cfm

Wow, didn’t expect this many replies. I don’t think the test score thing matters much, but I will look more into the cities, as well as the engineering physics major. Thank you all for your responses.

There’s an engineering physics major at UMich too, in the engineering school. I hadn’t realized it was that easy to switch from LSA (based on the many applicants on cc who are stressed about the competitiveness of admissions into engineering) but based on @Alexandre’s info, there may be less of a barrier there than I thought. FWIW, the CWRU Engineering Physics degree is ABET accredited, while the one at UMich is not. (Although your preference could go either way in that regard depending on what you hope to do with it and whether the ABET requirements align with what you’re interested in studying.) In your situation, the alignment of lower-division classes with your prior coursework (and the school’s willingness to sign off on specific requirements based on transfer credit) will be key, as well as identifying which degree program’s upper-division requirements will best fit what you want to study and still allow you to finish your degree in a timely manner. I would be mapping out all of the majors you’re considering at both schools, to optimize both the efficiency of the transfer and the attractiveness of the program going forward. There may turn out to be stark enough differences to sway the decision one way or the other. If not, then go with the intangibles and your gut. Congrats on two great choices!

@zzaver. This is CC. We debate “everything” ?. My son’s there in engineering and if you have more specific questions. Pm me.

@aquapt. Michigan supports their students to no end. Switching is pretty easy and they encourage it if your not happy in your chosen field. It’s not in bold print on their website but they don’t want you to feel stuck. They would rather support your decision then not which makes them rather unique in this sense. I think you have to be in your major for a year before switching in theory but have known people that switched earlier also.

So @zzaver. I will tell you what matters. The cornbeef at Slimans Deli at Cleveland State is superior to Zingermans Deli at Michigan but Zingermans is a better overall Deli experience ?. Let the debate begin… ?.

Corned beef is better at a number of Detroit area delis…but let’s not debate. Just have to say however, Slyman’s uses Sy Ginsberg corned beef…made in Detroit. Furthermore, nobody has better rye bread than Detroit area delis, along with Zingerman’s… Even NYC doesn’t compare.

There was a time when ate bread. ?

Not a fan of Zingerman’s. It’s OK.

@rjkofnovi. No debate from me. It’s a total compliment to Slymans that I say it’s so good. They must do something to it… It’s really that good. . I grew up in Detroit area. Stage and Star Deli and Bread Basket were my main stays(among others)… Chicago delis also buys from Romanium… And I think Stage buys there also but it’s totally different taste. Chicago (where I live) has crappy delis. I agree Detroit deli is some of the best I have been to. New York is just OK. Detroit also has awesome bagels. Chicago… . not so much. When we visit Detroit we come home with some rye bread. ??.

As I said… On CC… We will debate just about anything… Lol
. ?

@zzaver Most us either have children at school x vs y. Currently attend x or y. Or previously attended x vs y. Or had someone considering x or y vs our child’s current school “c” or may at any point in the future.

So a 1 pt difference in act 25 to 75 ranges in the college cds is proof positive of the superiority of a school, our genetic excellence and our child’s academic prowess.

In fact, if all else fails - your choosing school x vs y ,even if a smart financial decision, will eliminate your ability to enter the fields of investment banking and management consulting.

Even if you do not want these careers.

We will also hunt for and research ten to twenty various domestic and global college rankings and online surveys to prove the points noted above. Lol.

Umich is probably as good as it gets for big uni, top academics, big ten sports stuff and traditions. The base education at either of these schools will be interchangeable despite what we say. And Cleveland is cool now. Corned beef is great I hear. And other than the patriots they will be the most exciting team in the nfl next year.

You know your deli Knowsstuff! I concur with everything you say.

I can read what you are saying above, but wonder who you’re directing it toward, @privatebanker. I’d simply like for the OP to find the best school for himself with a few facts (from standard sources) at hand should he determine them relevant.

Not you merc. Not anyone actually.

I’m directing it to the op as a general reference. Hadn’t noticed your post at all. If I was directing it to you, I would certainly make sure to annotate the post to indicate this for sure.

Love your insight. But we, which includes me btw, do get a bit more granular than the average joe.

The OP responded to many posts with a simple “I don’t care that much about the scores”. That info and rankings doesn’t. always what indicate what’s better. It’s all case by case.

Think about:

How will your credits transfer
How affordable is the school
Do you want 5000 undergraduates or 30,000 undergraduates
How easy would it be for you to do undergraduate research at either school?
Are you into big time sports?
Look at the First Destination Survey at both colleges for you major…how many have jobs? go on to Grad school? WHat is the salary?

Some info on CWRU: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/case-western-reserve-university/2081572-cwru-frequently-asked-questions.html#latest

Zingermans offers sandwiches at Case Western, and baked goods too, in the student center.

Note that CWRU has many physics faculty that like undergrads. Michigan is much more focused on PhDs in physics, than Case is, so at Case undergrads get to do a lot of the really good work, with weaker PhD students that attend Case. its actually a sweet spot, Case for physics and every single undergrad can publish a paper, if they start
in sophomore or junior year, and work steadily with their physics advisor.

See these programs in biophysics, strong math students can start freshman year to learn actual physics, not just
classwork at Case-
http://biotheory.phys.cwru.edu

Cosmology is a special strength at Case-
https://cerca.case.edu

See Glenn Starkman–
https://physics.case.edu/faculty/glenn-starkman/

Solar photovoltaic durability, is a special strength at Case-
http://engineering.case.edu/centers/sdle/SDLE-Team

Case physics and engineering faculty travel to India, China and various spots in North America testing
solar panels, its more big data and engineering, but some physics students may find this interesting.

There is also a lot of optics faculty at Case, see
https://physics.case.edu/faculty/kenneth-singer/

Engineering physics degree-
http://bulletin.case.edu/schoolofengineering/engineeringphysics/

A special math-physics degree is offered at Case, for those more interested in theoretical physics -
https://physics.case.edu/undergraduate-programs/undergrad-degree-programs/bsdegree-mathphys/