UMich vs. UC Berkeley?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
81

<p>“You can add up NAE, NAS and Institute of Medicine members for each. I would say UCSD and UCLA have more members than Michigan… Michigan has a weak faculty compared to comparable universities, especially in the sciences…even with an in-house medical school.”</p>

<p>UCBChemEGrad, you cannot assume that a faculty is weak if it lacks NAE, NAS and Institute of Medicine members. For example, Princeton’s Mathematics department has 14 members of the NAS. Cal only has 6. Is Princeton’s Mathematics department that much better than Cal’s? Chicago only has 2, while Columbia and Cornell each have 1. Those 4 mathematics departments are also stellar. By the way, Michigan has 4, UCLA has 3 and UCSD has 2. </p>

<p>For Engineering, Michigan has 26 members of the NAE. Only MIT, Stanford, Cal, UIUC and Caltech have more. Michigan is 6th, tied with CMU and Georgia Tech. UCSD has an impressive 23 and UCLA has 19. </p>

<p>The fact of the matter is, while a university may have 100, 200 or even 300 members of major Academies, those are still merely a tiny fraction of the overall faculty. In many instances, those members do not teach undergraduate students. But regardless, a faculty’s overal strength will be determined by the strength of its departments across the board, not by the number of members it has. From that point of view, I would rate Cal’s faculty between #1 and #3 and Michigan’s between #5 and #7. The strengths of Michigan’s departments and programs support the fact that it has a top 10 (arguably top 5) faculty.</p>

82

<p>Peer Assessment scores only measure perception and don’t always represent reality. If Michigan was truly world-renowned, Michigan would have more NAS and NAE members on their faculty. The perception of Michigan in a lot of key areas of academic study seems to be overrated.</p>

83

<p>You do realize goldenboy that Duke is FAR worse than Michigan in the number of NAS and NAE members, yet somehow is miraculously ranked as a top ten school. Talk about completely overrated. If Duke WERE truly world-renowned…</p>

84

<p>goldenboy, Michigan trails Cal, Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford and Yale. That is not surprising considering that they have strong PA scores. Michigan does not trail its own peers, schools like Chicago, Columbia, Cornell and Penn do not have more NAS and NAE members. </p>

<p>Brown, Dartmouth, Duke and Vanderbilt trail Michigan in this count. I have only looked at Mathematics/Physics/Chemistry (NAS) and Engineering (NAE) and Michigan leads Duke 33 to 8. That’s not even close. Surprisingly, Michigan even beats Duke in the number of Institute of Medicine members, 125 to 90. </p>

<p>I would say that Michigan’s PA is spot on. Michigan is neither over, nor underrated by academe. Those guys actually know their business. Without a doubt, Michigan’s peer assessment ratings usually ranges between #5 and #7, and that is where it belongs.</p>

85

<p>I am not sure about the voting processes for these academies, but I have a feeling one already has to be a member to get a vote. If that is the case, schools that have large amounts of inductees are more likely to be voting for their colleagues who they see on a daily basis than those on other faculties. I know there are strict quotas on new memberships per year, so I would imagine a bit of partisonship plays a major role in who gets accepted.</p>

86

<p>

Alex, that’s because Chicago doesn’t have an Engineering school and Penn/Duke don’t have comprehensive engineering departments like Michigan. How can you expect a school that doesn’t offer ChemE, Nuclear Engineering, Aerospace, Industrial/Operations Engineering, Naval Architecture/Marine Engineering like Duke to be competitive with Michigan in NAE membership?</p>

<p>I don’t make fun of Princeton because it doesn’t have a Business, Law, and Medical school. Not every school aspires to be a jack of all trades like Michigan. ;)</p>

<p>Penn has more NAS members than Michigan and Duke is the only school on your list of “peers” that trails Michigan by a bit (24 vs. 22).</p>

<p>National Academy of Sciences Membership
[National</a> Academy of Sciences](<a href=“National Academy of Sciences”>National Academy of Sciences)</p>

<p>University of California, Berkeley:127
…
…
…
Columbia U.: 48
University of Washington: 47
University of Chicago: 40
University of California, Los Angeles: 40
University of Wisconsin: 37
Cornell: 35
University of Pennsylvania: 28
Johns Hopkins University: 26
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: 24
Duke U.: 22
Northwestern U.: 20
UT Austin: 17
UNC Chapel Hill: 11
Brown U.: 9
Vanderbilt U.: 7
University of Virginia: 3
Dartmouth U.: 2</p>

87

<p>“How can you expect a school that doesn’t offer ChemE, Nuclear Engineering, Aerospace, Industrial/Operations Engineering, Naval Architecture/Marine Engineering like Duke to be competitive with Michigan…”</p>

<p>You can’t. Your only purpose to come to this board is to disparage the University of Michigan. Please just go away…</p>

88

<p>

</p>

<p>Doesn’t stop Harvard from being competitive. </p>

<p>NAE Membership:
Michigan: 26
Harvard: 19
Duke: 5</p>

89

<p>I have no explanation for that UCBChemEGrad except for the fact that I think some researchers are willing to accept a Faculty position at Harvard even if its weak in their discipline just to brag to their relatives that they teach at Harvard.</p>

<p>Harvard is always the exception to every rule.</p>

90

<p>Even just looking at the NAS, which is admittedly Michigan’s weakest area as far as faculty awards are concerned, Michigan holds its own against several of its peers, including Chicago, Cornell, Duke, JHU, Northwestern, Penn, Texas-Austin, UCLA, UNC and Wisconsin-Madison.</p>

<p>As for the NAE and Institute of Medicine count, Michigan is #7 in both:</p>

<h1>1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 111</h1>

<h1>2 Stanford University 95</h1>

<h1>3 University of California-Berkeley 75</h1>

<h1>4 California Institute of Technology 33</h1>

<h1>5 Princeton University 30</h1>

<h1>5 University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign 30</h1>

<h1>7 Carnegie Mellon University 26</h1>

<h1>7 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 26</h1>

<h1>9 Cornell University 25</h1>

<h1>9 Georgia Institute of Technology 25</h1>

<h1>9 University of California-Santa Barbara 25</h1>

<h1>9 University of Southern California 25</h1>

<h1>13 University of California-San Diego 23</h1>

<h1>14 University of Wisconsin-Madison 21</h1>

<h1>15 Harvard University 19</h1>

<h1>15 Northwestern University 19</h1>

<h1>15 Purdue University-West Lafayette 19</h1>

<h1>15 University of California-Los Angeles 19</h1>

<h1>19 Columbia University 18</h1>

<h1>20 University of Washington 17</h1>

<p>Institute of Medicine </p>

<h1>1 Johns Hopkins University 178</h1>

<h1>2 Harvard University 149</h1>

<h1>3 University of California-San Francisco 147</h1>

<h1>4 Stanford University 142</h1>

<h1>5 University of Washington 133</h1>

<h1>6 Columbia University 131</h1>

<h1>7 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 125</h1>

<h1>8 University of Pennsylvania 120</h1>

<h1>9 University of California-Los Angeles 92</h1>

<h1>10 Yale University 91</h1>

<h1>11 Duke University 90</h1>

<h1>12 Cornell University 77</h1>

<h1>13 University of Pittsburgh 71</h1>

<h1>14 University of California-San Diego 65</h1>

<h1>15 University of Chicago 58</h1>

<h1>16 Vanderbilt University 54</h1>

<h1>17 Washington University-St Louis 52</h1>