For some people small classes and a LAC atmosphere may be better. Not everybody is the same. It’s about the student, not about the school.
LOL! We can go around and around. You keep focusing on the school, and I’ll keep focusing on the student.
My D own turned down an “obvious” choice and is much better for it. Really.
If you read my #5 post again, I did NOT say that Tufts was superior for undergrad than Michigan. This was YOUR extrapolation. You decided to use the word “better” or “superior” with abandon, not me. I never used it. I was describing Tufts with respect to its LAC attributes. The OP can decide for him/ herself if he/she is attracted by the differences between a school of 5000 undergrads and one of 28,000+.
“if Tufts is so superior to Michigan at providing undergraduate students with a liberal arts education (better teaching, better advising etc…), how come Michigan alums outnumber Tufts alums 22:1 at the #1 Law school and the #1 Medical schools in the nation despite the fact that Michigan only has 3 times as many prelaw and premed students as Tufts?”
Why are you throwing these admit rates in the argument? What do they have to do with OP’s early interest in balancing engineering and the liberal arts? We can parse relative grad school admit rates till kingdom come and still not address the OP’s question.
And as far as the words you put in my mouth with respect to the reasons why students chose Tufts over Michigan, according to Parchment (to a substantial degree, regardless of how much stock you place in the site)… Ignominy? Unrefined? Unsophisticated? Again, your words, not mine. BTW, Michigan is a school I strongly urged my D to visit and consider, because I knew it was the very opposite of your descriptives.
Wow, ClassicRockerDad is right. LOL.
I focus on the student and the school.
I know from my own personal experience, Tufts engineering was certainly not the most competitive program I could have gotten into (I had relatively strong SAT2s and a very strong ACT). Hell, Ohio State is even ranked higher than Tufts for engineering. But I don’t think that determines the quality of your education.
First of all, the students at Tufts are some of the most intellectually curious, friendly, and open-minded I’ve met. My friends who are going to Michigan are incredibly smart, but they don’t have the same kind of genuine interest in their work as the people I’ve met at Tufts. They tend to be more practically-minded and focused on getting from point A to point B. Is that a bad thing? No, it’s just a completely different perspective.
To be completely honest, I was underwhelmed a bit by Tufts’ engineering presentation. The speakers weren’t the most interesting I’ve ever heard, but everything else about the school has made me love it. Even the introductory seminars for freshman engineers are really interesting (found here: http://engineering.tufts.edu/docs/ES93IntroEngFall2014.pdf).
For someone who wants to do pure engineering and has almost no other interests, I think University of Michigan is the better choice. There’s really no way to say that the engineering education at Tufts is better than Michigan’s. However, there’s more to college than just going to class. There’s tons of research being done at Tufts in the field I want to study (regenerative medicine), and Tufts’ biology and biomedical engineering departments are getting very popular. There’s lots of innovative research being done, such as the silk model of a human brain, and Tufts encourages engineers to explore fields other than their major. One student who spoke at an accepted student day is a chemical engineer minoring in Spanish and planning on applying to medical schools.
I don’t think people at Tufts go there because it’s the most prestigious school they could’ve gone to or that they applied to. If you love the atmosphere of Tufts, it’s where you should go. It sounds like the OP doesn’t just want to go from point A to point B and might enjoy the experiences Tufts offers. I don’t think it’s unfair to choose a college that’s lower ranked and “less prestigious.” People do it all the time because they think it might make them happy.
“Why are you throwing these admit rates in the argument? What do they have to do with OP’s early interest in balancing engineering and the liberal arts? We can parse relative grad school admit rates till kingdom come and still not address the OP’s question.”
Because the OP mentioned he could potentially be premed or prelaw. Her/hi exact words from the original post were:
“However I am also into business, finance, economics, so an MBA, pre med or pre law is not out of the question.”
Also, should he wish to change majors to Business, Michigan is a much better option since Ross is exceptional while Tufts has no Business school.
Besides, I disagree with the assertion that one cannot balance Engineering with liberal arts at Michigan. I just think that Michigan does not compromise when it comes to Engineering. One cannot receive a good Engineering education with a high dosage of Liberal Arts in four years. The two are not meant to coexist so freely. If one wishes the best of both worlds (without compromising on quality), then one is probably going to need more than 4 years to graduate.
“If you read my #5 post again, I did NOT say that Tufts was superior for undergrad than Michigan.”
When you say that Tufts offers more opportunities to learn from/work with faculty and meet with advisors, you are essentially saying it is superior. To me, access to faculty is EXTREMELY important. The notion that Michigan faculty is not accessible is a complete myth. I have never, in my four years at Michigan, felt uncomfortable talking to a professor, or made to wait to speak to one. I agree that Tufts has smaller intro-level classes, but in all other respects, Tufts is no more “LACish” than Michigan. It does not offer greater curricular flexibility (Michigan is extremely flexible), a more interdisciplinary approach (in this regard Michigan is in fact second to none, just look up virtually unlimited interdisciplinary options on offer at Michigan), or greater access to faculty and/or advisors. Like I said, there is nothing LACish about a university with 11,000 students, more than half of which are graduate students. LACish schools to me are more like Wake Forest or Dartmouth.
“Ignominy? Unrefined? Unsophisticated? Again, your words, not mine. BTW, Michigan is a school I strongly urged my D to visit and consider, because I knew it was the very opposite of your descriptives.”
I did not say those were your words, but they are the thoughts of most high school kids who choose Tufts (or schools in major cities on the coasts) over universities like Michigan (or other elites in the Midwest).
I stand by my initial post. In the case of the OP, Michigan is a better choice. If he/she decides to major in Engineering, Michigan is significantly better than Tufts. If the OP wants to explore other academic options, Michigan will allow for it. If the OP decides to switch academic disciplines, Michigan will allow it and likely excel at it. If the OP had expressed concern over Michigan, I would not be recommending it. But the OP has actually admitted liking Michigan. And he has expressed his desire to attend a strong Engineering program on more than one occasion.
Since we have seen the advantages offered by Michigan from the standpoint of rankings and placement into elite graduate schools (as offered by prior posters), there are two simple tests here: 1) http://admissions.umich.edu/academics-majors/majors-degrees Michigan offers 250 degree programs. How many are offered at Tufts?; 2) as noted on the main page (http://umich.edu/) Michigan is almost unmatched at the graduate level with 101 programs in the top 10 in the nation.
The first metric (number of programs (250)) tells me that one would have no problem finding a very highly (national AND global) ranked program from which to receive an undergraduate degree were one to attend Michigan. The second metric tells me that there are a mere handful (4) of schools which rank, in aggregate, as highly as Michigan at the graduate level.
If you want a chance to attend a school where the undergraduate possibilities are almost limitless and where you would end up “hooked” into an elite graduate program (subject to performance at the undergraduate level), the answer is Michigan. If you want top-shelf graduate credentials, the answer is Michigan.
I think if the OP cracks a UM course catalog, he’ll see that there are a myriad of possibilities at UM. Given its scale and critical mass across a huge portfolio of programs, I doubt Tufts can compete across such a diverse range of topics. Tufts may be a Tiffany in its own mix, but Michigan is a very large Tiffany.
The Ross School of Business at U.Michigan is elite caliber, and undoubtedly all of those subjects would be at least as well taught at Michigan as at Tufts… and actually probably better than Tufts.
You will have a wider selection of liberal arts courses at Michigan than at Tufts. In some departments Tufts will be better, but in others UM will be better. This is not a good reason to choose Tufts.
I went to Tufts undergrad and my daughter just finished her first year at UofM COE. Let me start by saying that if you are comparing quality of the engineering programs, Michigan wins hands down. There is just no comparison. Both schools offer great academics, but Tufts simply can’t match Michigan’s resources in engineering. But if OP doesn’t think he will stay in engineering, then it really comes down to fit. The feel of each school is completely different. Michigan offers more of the “traditional” college experience. Tufts is more politically active and, oddly, less cohesive even though it is smaller. It is hard to top going to college in Boston, but Ann Arbor has many charms. OP says sports are not for him, so if he would feel odd at school where many people do care about football, etc. then Tufts is a great choice. Ultimately, if the quality of the engineering program is paramount, go with michigan. Otherwise go with your gut.
Thanks for your comments HSM1417. It’s refreshing to see that someone else believes that not all engineering programs are equivalent.
@HSM1417 can you elaborate on why Tufts would be less cohesive than UMich?
I’m not going to repeat what others have already said about what school to pick. Most of it has been covered.
But, I want to point out a potential pitfall if you intend to major in engineering but don’t have your heart truly set on it.
Engineering programs are notoriously difficult and rigorous. As a result, engineering students tend to have lower GPAs than other students - often significantly lower. This is not a problem if you actually get your engineering degree. Companies covet engineers.
However, if you end up transferring out of engineering and later wish to apply to grad school, your engineering grades may come back to haunt you. Law schools, business schools and med schools will view you as an applicant with mediocre grades at that point. There will be no engineering “bump.”
This happened to my roommate in college. This is not meant to scare you out of engineering. But, it is not for everyone.
I think its highly unlikely that anyone knows the thoughts of most high school kids on any topic. Regardless, there are many reasons to choose either school and certainly no reason here to generalize.
On the original question, to the extent we have a consensus it seems to be - go to Michigan if you want the best engineering education possible, otherwise go with fit and Tufts. I agree with that.
@ormdad Tufts feels less cohesive because there really isn’t anything about the school that binds everyone together other than that they all live in the same place. There is no real school spirit or sense of history about the place. Obviously there are cohesive groups within the school and many kids are passionate about their clubs or whatever group they are in. But there is no sense of particular pride about being a “Jumbo.” In comparison, you can say “Go Blue” to anyone who ever went to Michigan and get an get an enthusiastic response. Almost every Michigan student feels a bond of some sort with every other student by virtue of having shared the Michigan experience. Tufts, although an excellent school, just doesn’t have that.
The most impressive feature of Michigan Engineering is that it is designed for the student to succeed. There are no weeder classes (like LSA). Help is available in department lounges all day. TA’s and professors conduct frequent and regular review sessions before tests and before assignments and area exceptionally available. As a freshman, you can easily bounce around and decide on the engineering specialty that works best for you. And most importantly, there is a strong entrepreneurial focus with many students starting companies and joining start-ups while in school or shortly after. Most students have several job offers when they graduate and recruitment is intense.
Engineering is a great foundation for business too, and extremely desirable for upper management (engineers are the most desired members of B-School MBA teams too). Ask around New York about Michigan- there is huge alumni base around NYC starting from the 1920’s when the Ivy’s limited Jewish enrollment (and Michigan welcomed them)
Michigan Ross has a top 5 BBA program and you could transfer, or double major, if you decide engineering alone is not sufficient.
Thank you so much for the spirited debate. I read every post before I made my decision last week and throughly enjoyed them. They were very helpful. @ClassicRockerDad I think you picked up on that I was leaning towards Tufts going into this. This is the reason I posted it on Michigan’s forum. I really wanted to make sure that Tufts would work for me as an engineer. I know Michigan is amazing for engineering. Thank you @Alexandre and @rjkofnovi . I liked the central campus so much more than I expected to. However in the end I chose Tufts.
@micmatt513 your discussion was extremely helpful and reassuring. I went to the Computer Science and Electrical Engineering presentation and was also underwhelmed having had more EE experience than most.
@tooOld 4School, your post really made me regret not choosing Michigan. The sense I got when I visited was that CoE was designed to weed out or at least that if I did not work constantly I had a real danger of a sub 3.0 GPA which would kill any professional school ambitions or so I thought. As opposed to the sense I got from Tufts is while you have to workfor As, they are obtainable.
Thank you everyone again, it was very informative
@SaphireNY - Glad to see that you’re going to be a classmate of mine! I hope that we have a very successful and fun four years together. Congrats!
Thank you, same to you.