UNC+$ vs Ivy: A Debate

<p>^ yeah, most of them were just mindless worker bees in high school. but any ivy has its fair share of highly intelligent students. 25% of penn students scored above 1530(m+cr) on the sat, i think, and within that 25% there are surely a few people of high natural intelligence.</p>

<p>i still maintain that the ivies are better. at UNC you will interact mostly with good students from north carolina. at an ivy, you are interacting with students of absurdly high motivation and ability from every corner of the country and globe. spend enough time with motivated people and it will rub off on you for the better.</p>

<p>Well my brother got a 35 on the ACTs, got waitlisted at Penn, and will probably end up at Michigan. I dont think he's any less of a genius for not attending Penn...</p>

<p>And believe me, I think you're highly overrating Penn. As I said, I know a significant amount of people there, many of which got in because of connections or having legacy.</p>

<p>UNC is indeed good students from NC, but there are TONS of intellectuals there, and if those are the people you seek, I dont think you'll be in worse company.</p>

<p>i'm a penn legacy with a great transcript(from a fairly elite private hs) and a 2370. if i got in, it would only be because of legacy?</p>

<h2>Rutgers89 wrote: "Listen, here is the effin deal! UNC is a great school, but an ivy is an ivy! "</h2>

<p>You know, the people who laugh hardest at youthfully energetic broad stroke chest beating like that are the alumni of Ivies... I'm laughing.</p>

<h2>choklitrain wrote: "at UNC you will interact mostly with good students from north carolina. at an ivy, you are interacting with students of absurdly high motivation and ability from every corner of the country and globe. spend enough time with motivated people and it will rub off on you for the better."</h2>

<p>I agree with the substance of that statement. That is precisely why students at the so called "public ivies" that do best are those who likewise have a lot of internal motivation... no hand holding, not as high quality peer group.... it's that way in the real job world too, so it's good training I suppose.</p>

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That said, im no solely concerned with how my undergraduate school will effect my medical school admissions. im far more conerned about my EXPERIENCE as an undergrad, both academically and socially.

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<p>In that case, it IS a no-brainer: Dartmouth or Brown. </p>

<p>Wait and see where you get in, and go to the accepted students events.</p>

<p>


In that case, it IS a no-brainer: Dartmouth or Brown.

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Depends on the person. A person looking for a huge athletic scene as part of the social experience would be best served at UNC (or maybe Penn). A person looking for outdoor activities would be great for Dartmouth. A person looking for a thriving LGBT community would do well at Brown or UNC. Someone looking for a big city or nightlife would do well at Penn.</p>

<p>someone adverse to drinking should avoid Dartmouth, and most rural colleges for that matter.</p>

<p>blue... you mean "averse", non? I mean, irregarless of how it effects me, it might effect others.</p>

<p>^^how about has adverse effects (or is it affects?) -- never did too well on dem' thar SAT verbal questions. :)</p>

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i'm a penn legacy with a great transcript(from a fairly elite private hs) and a 2370. if i got in, it would only be because of legacy?

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<p>Um I never said anything about you, but I was implying that less qualified applicants got in with legacy.</p>

<p>^ i'm just saying being a legacy and being well-qualified aren't mutually exclusive</p>

<p>Beignet,
I don’t think that there is much debate about the overall student body quality at UNC vs that of any of the Ivy colleges. The Ivies are clearly stronger. However, college is about more than just what goes on in the classroom and IMO, the overall package of U North Carolina compares very favorably with any of the Ivies that have been mentioned. </p>

<p>Your opening statements about what drew you to U North Carolina in the first place (the sports scene) is a BIG difference from what you’ll find anywhere in the Ivies. U North Carolina plays in a major conference, often competing in games that are highly visible and relevant on the national scene and which engender a tremendous amount of campus energy and fun. </p>

<p>Just compare on the two big sports of football and basketball. This past year, the Tar Heels won a lot of games, qualified for a post-season bowl game and regularly played on national TV and in front home crowds of 60,000 fans. For the Ivies, they played opponents like Stony Brook, Colgate and Lafayette and the average home crowds were 11k at U Penn, 7k at Brown and 5k at Dartmouth. </p>

<p>The difference is likewise very pronounced in basketball as U North Carolina is consistently one of the premier teams in the USA and games are a happening on campus, particularly encounters with nearby Duke. If a fun sports scene is something you want as part of your undergraduate experience, the choice is clear. It’s U North Carolina. </p>

<p>I agree with juillet, dionte and others that U North Carolina’s academic quality is very good and I am confident that you would also reach this conclusion if you visited the school and talked with some of the students and professors (and even better, talk to some of the alumni). If you can get comfortable that you will be academically satisfied at U North Carolina, then IMO UNC is the far superior choice.</p>

<p>I just want to throw this fact out. When you go to a state school, the quality of academia relies heavily on the states budget. This also means a lot of money is pouring into the sports programs as well, and this sometimes can cause problems for academics. I think UNC is AN AWESOME SCHOOL! But, I just think overall Brown and Penn are better overall academic experience, even outside the classroom.</p>

<p>And to the person who asked me why I capitalized Brown... It's because I feel(my opinion) that Brown is the best place to be for undergrad in the country. I have 10 other schools that I have in this category, but Brown is my fav.</p>

<p>It is very ridiculous for someone to assert that if someone goes to UNC with a scholarship versus an IVy, he will be any worse off.</p>

<p>A UNC diploma from an OOS state kid is VERY prestigious. It is veeeeeery difficult to get into UNC oos. </p>

<p>As long as you go to a top school, you can't honestly say that going to Vandy instead of Yale or Emory instead of Penn or UNC instead of Brown will make any sort of difference in prospective employment oppurtunities or internships.</p>

<p>Employers aren't stupid, they realize that a kid ith a scholarship from UNC is a very smart kid and could be just as or more qualified that a kid with a Harvard diploma.</p>

<p>I agree with you, to an extent. I really don't believe where you go to undergrad makes a big deal, but Ivy.vs.UNC can make a difference. I think it would be wrong to say UNC with an oos scholarship is just as good as Brown without it, if money does not matter to the kid especially. UNC is an awesome school like I said, but Brown is better, and that is not subject to opinion(I mean it can be, but not statistically/recognition). </p>

<p>Now with employment, I definitley do not think undergrad diplomas make a difference. GPA/Interviews are the big factors. As you said too, employers are not stupid, and they will realize a kid from UNC is probably smart, but don't you think that at first, they might think the kid from Brown is smarter?</p>

<p>UNC has A LOT more name recognition than Brown...</p>

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UNC has A LOT more name recognition than Brown...

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<p>Among whom? The average football or basketball fan, many employers in the southeast, yes.</p>

<p>But the OP said that his major concern was the undergraduate experience, period. His choice really depends on the kind of undergraduate experience he prefers. (And where he gets in, of course.)</p>

<p>Beignet,</p>

<p>We could probably help you better if you chimed in with some of your interests and possible major. Rutgers89 is (obviously) a big Brown fan, but it has a very distinct culture, and probably would not be a great fit for a neocon. Penn has a distinct pre-professional feel in an very urban area -- great for some, not so good for others. While probably one of the better undergraduate academic experiences, Dartmouth is rural, significantly affecting the social dynamic (which is dominated by its Greek system). Large, research-oriented Cornell is somewhat less rural if only bcos Ithaca is a larger town. If you hate sports....</p>

<p>It appears that your are OOS for UNC. Even at out-of-state rates UNC is a great deal, but it's value proposition diminishes significantly at that price, IMO.</p>

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Among whom? The average football or basketball fan, many employers in the southeast, yes.

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<p>Among the general public.</p>