undegrad > job market > grad school

[sakky]

<p>

Sakky, I’m perfectly able to read your posts. You’re still wrong. Firstly, lecturers and instructors are adjuncts. They aren’t full-time faculty, even if they teach full-time, and they have no job security, little or no benefits, and usually are paid less.

</p>

<p>Uh, no, YOU’RE still wrong. </p>

<p>First off, the fact that instructors and lecturers are teachers. You were talking about just “teaching” at a 4-year college. You said nothing about being a fully fledged professor. </p>

<p>Secondly, you’re even more wrong because I see that you still haven’t read my posts carefully. I included quite a number of * fully-fledged professors* in my above posts. </p>

<p>For example, since you didn’t bother to read it, here is Linley Kay Baker, assistant professor of mathematics at Ball State University. She has only a master’s.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.bsu.edu/web/math/people/regfac/baker/facinfo.html[/url]”>http://www.bsu.edu/web/math/people/regfac/baker/facinfo.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Again, before you respond to my posts, please read them first. </p>

<p>

I doubt that’s what the OP is considering,

</p>

<p>I suppose we should leave it up to the OP to make that determination. However his direct quote is: </p>

<p>“Im not interested in doing reaserch or anything but instead want to teach at the postsecondary level”</p>

<p>Hence, seems to me that lecturer/instructor positions would fill the bill quite nicely. </p>

<p>

and that constitutes the vast majority of the faculty you listed.

</p>

<p>So? We’re not talking about the ‘vast majority’ of faculty. We are simply talking about whether you CAN teach at a 4-year college with just a master’s. And the truth of the matter is that you CAN. </p>

<p>Now, is it harder to land such a job with just a master’s, but no doctorate? Of course! But that’s not what we’re talking about. What we are talking about is whether you simply CAN land such a job. I think it’s quite clear that you can.</p>

<p>What you should have said (and I would not have disputed) is something to the effect of “It is harder to land a teaching job at a 4-year college without a doctorate”. This would be an eminently uncontroversial point that I would not have disputed. But you didn’t say that. You specifically said: "Obviously you can’t teach at a 4 yr school with just a masters degree. " You went too far, because the fact is, you CAN teach at a 4 year school with just a master’s. </p>

<p>

Secondly, you have not at all accounted for changes in hiring practices over the last decade. Perhaps you could make your point better if you could find advertisements for full-time math faculty at a 4 year college that only require a masters. Here’s some help:</p>

<p><a href=“http://chronicle.com/jobs/100/700/5000/[/url]”>http://chronicle.com/jobs/100/700/5000/&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.higheredjobs.com/faculty/...cfm?JobCat=104[/url]”>http://www.higheredjobs.com/faculty/...cfm?JobCat=104&lt;/a&gt;

</p>

<p>Changes in the last decade? So then how exactly did Linley Kay Baker, who got her master’s in 2005, become an assistant professor of mathematics at Ball State? Seems to me that that’s well within the last decade. </p>

<p>Again, here’s the link:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.bsu.edu/web/math/people/regfac/baker/facinfo.html[/url]”>http://www.bsu.edu/web/math/people/regfac/baker/facinfo.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Or how about Assistant Professor Colleen Ianuzzi at the University of Alaska Southeast? She was hired in 2006. That was just last year.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.uas.alaska.edu/faculty_staff/organization/provost/arts-sciences/natural-sciences/math/ketchikan/Ianuzzi.html[/url]”>http://www.uas.alaska.edu/faculty_staff/organization/provost/arts-sciences/natural-sciences/math/ketchikan/Ianuzzi.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

Perhaps you could make your point better if you could find advertisements for full-time math faculty at a 4 year college that only require a masters. Here’s some help:</p>

<p><a href=“http://chronicle.com/jobs/100/700/5000/[/url]”>http://chronicle.com/jobs/100/700/5000/&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.higheredjobs.com/faculty/...cfm?JobCat=104[/url]”>http://www.higheredjobs.com/faculty/...cfm?JobCat=104&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>It is hiring season, after all. Good luck with that.

</p>

<p>I think I’ve made my point quite well, thank you very much. </p>

<p>But since you mentioned it, allright fine, I’ll play your game. Using the links you provided, I quickly found one tenure-track math assistant professorship at Florida Memorial University (which, yes, is a 4-year college) that does not require a PhD. True, it says “doctorate preferred”. But it’s not required.</p>

<p><a href=“Job Details - HigherEdJobs”>Assistant Professor of Mathematics - HigherEdJobs;

<p>Here’s a similar one at Central State University.</p>

<p><a href=“Job Details - HigherEdJobs”>Assistant Professor of Mathematics Education - HigherEdJobs;

<p>How about a few more that don’t “quite” fit the bill, but almost do. Here’s a assistant professor position in mathematics at Quincy University in which a PhD is only “preferred”, and they would consider ABD. Hence, it seems to me that somebody who is ABD (but has a master’s) would indeed have a shot at being an assistant prof at this 4-year college. </p>

<p><a href=“Job Details - HigherEdJobs”>Assistant Professor of Mathematics - HigherEdJobs;

<p>I found another similar post at the University of Southern Indiana.</p>

<p><a href=“Job Details - HigherEdJobs”>Assistant/Associate Professor of Mathematics, Pott College of Science and Engineering - F07063F1 - HigherEdJobs;

<p>Here’s another at Lincoln University</p>

<p><a href=“Job Details - HigherEdJobs”>Mathematics & Computer Science - Assistant Professor - HigherEdJobs;

<p>But anyway, DSP, what do you think? Have I made my point “even better”, now that I took your links and found a bunch of potential jobs that fit the bill? </p>

<p>But besides, I don’t think this point is important anyway. Job specs serve as little more than “wish lists”. I think we’ve all seen numerous examples of companies who will put out laundry-lists of requirements for job specs, and then eventually hire somebody who doesn’t have all those requirements. For example, I remember back in the year 2000 when software companies were “demanding” that programming candidates have 10 years of Java experience (despite the fact that Java wasn’t even officially invented developed as an in-house research project at Sun Microsystems until 1991 and wasn’t officially released to the public until 1995). Even recently, I saw an ad that was demanding 5 years of experience with Ruby on Rails (RoR), despite the fact the RoR wasn’t even released until 2004. Organizations are always hiring people who don’t exactly fit the job spec.</p>