<p>What I’ve seen watching at three very competitive high schools is that the legacies do have the requisite stats today. The advantage is getting in over all the others with the same stats who don’t, and that they’ll get a break if they don’t have world class ECs.</p>
<p>Back in the day they didn’t need the stats.</p>
<p>“Back in the day they didn’t need the stats.”
agreed. legacy alone these days won’t get you into the most selective U’s.</p>
<p>Darn it. I want a return to the good old days where college applications took a day or two apiece and you could have a now-#12 ranked school as your SAFETY!</p>
<p>I do think that the positive side of all of this is now the best kids are “trickling down” and perking up the level of the unis below the top. Schools that 20 years ago were “you can get in if you have a pulse” are now far more selective.</p>
<p>One other thing that impresses me from doing college fairs is that there are just so many opportunities for bright young people to do cool things, everywhere. The top schools no longer have the monopoly on opening doors. They will always have an advantage in opening certain doors, no doubt - but if you’re not interested in those doors, it doesn’t really matter.</p>
<p>“One other thing that impresses me from doing college fairs is that there are just so many opportunities for bright young people to do cool things, everywhere.” <–still can’t do that cool quote thing</p>
<p>I totally agree with this, Pizzagirl. It is one reason that students are often better off selecting schools that excel in their major even over higher ranked (damn that USN&WR) colleges. These superior departments at less-than-HYPS ranked schools can offer wonderful mentoring, extra opportunities to intern, job placement help, and on and on. </p>
<p>My DH recruits interns and new hire engineers from Cal State Northridge for his top ten Biomedical tech company, for example (among other schools that are sure to be better known around the country), but the CSN biomed undergrads have a stellar program.</p>
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<p>Exactly right. The increase in the number of high end students has increased the competition to get into the high end schools but it’s also forced those lower down in the rankings to step up their game so that they can get some of that trickle down. S1, a high school 3.5, attends a school outside the Top30; in the last four years he found his passion and has taken part in fascinating research projects and traveled to parts of the world that I have trouble finding with Google Earth. Graduate schools are calling him.</p>
<p>The Top20 isn’t Eden, nor do they issue you a key to Ft. Knox upon admission. Most of these schools made their reputations on their graduate schools. I really believe that the under-appreciated formula is do very well at a “fair to middling” undergrad program and get yourself into one of the top grad schools. Twenty years from now no one is going to care how you did on your high school junior year Spanish AP exam. They will care about the work or the research you’ve done in your chosen field, something you most likely discovered during your undergrad years.</p>
<p>I’ve said it before, undergrad degree from Kay Kyser and his School of Musical Knowledge plus Harvard Medical School is more impressive than the other way around.</p>
<p>If you are looking for T20 for the prestige factor, you might also want to consider “future prospecting”. (note: I am not peddling the “prestige factor” personally. I am just mentioning this in case some of you feel that it’s a worthwhile currency - let’s not get in the mode of passing judgment, pleaseeeeeeeeeeee)</p>
<p>Think of the prestige down the road, rather than right now. For instance both U Penn and Columbia which are now firmly within top 10 used to be way way outside that range something like 20 years ago (hard to believe now, right?). so, what kind of schools are on the way up outside of T20 so that in a few years the diploma will be “worth” more? If this line of discussion interests you and your kids, then it’s worth thinking about it.</p>
<p>For instance, I think Chicago has a lot of head room now that they seem to finally get the hang of the ranking game, but then again, it’s already within top 10. Are there are others like it outside of T20? I think my S2 is not within this range any way, but for some of you with kids on the T20-30 borderline. this may be worth exploring.</p>
<p>That is a VERY interesting line of thought, hyeonjlee. Very provocative thought. </p>
<p>Where’s the USNWR ranking of colleges that will be USNWR-ranked higher in 20 years? Anyone? I must have such a list!!</p>
<p>well, IMHO, USC is on that list. They are currently #25 and climbing fast, following the same policies that boosted WASH U in recent years- generous merit aid to top students, generous FA, and scooping up top researchers and profs right and left.</p>
<p>USNWR has an “Up-and-coming” list.</p>
<p>For U’s, USC, Emory, Rice are on the list. </p>
<p>For LAC’s, Davidson, Reed, U. Richmond, and Dickinson, are on the list.</p>
<p>U. Richmond has risen from 40 to 33 to 30 on the LAC list in the last two years.</p>
<p>now that is a cool way of gaming the system!! look for the investment diploma from and up and coming school. i didn’t know those schools clawed their way up the prestige ladder…that is super interesting!</p>
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<p>I cannot find this Kay Kyser anywhere in my USNWR list! I hear it’s good in music, but what about science and engineering? What’s its placement into Goldman Sachs? Will I be able to put the decal on my car without cringing? And what about its sister school, Ish Kabibble? These are important questions. If I don’t get a response within 2 minutes, I will surely bump this post.</p>
<p>Re: Post 786 - You might be interested to know that Columbia used to be more highly regarded than it is today. Before the students took over the Administration Building in the riots of the '60’s, it used to be HYColumbia, not HYP. USC is definitely trying to improve its statistical image. At least three of the top students in my son’s class who had applied to USC were offered significant merit scholarships (1/2 to Full Tuitition). My son said that everyone he talked to had also applied to at least some of the top 10 tier schools and USC was actively trying to recruit them. Of the three students that I know, one turned down Columbia and Princeton for the merit scholarship at USC, and two turned down USC merit scholarships for Harvard and Julliard. My son also got a significant merit scholarship from Rice without an application.</p>
<p>I also think that SAT scores are more significant that most AdComs would like you to believe. The was a study by some Princeton professors a few years back which tracked the admissions rate for HYP (I believe). The statistical advantage between 2100 and 2300 was significant and at 2400 (it did not identify if it was superscored, but it probably was) the chances of admission were about 30% (or more). This is the one significant area that this demographic (3.3-3.6 GPA) group can still improve upon. There are mulitple SAT test dates still for those applying this year.</p>
<p>The problem with playing the “who’s going to move up game” is that in order for a school to move up, someone else is going to have to be pushed down. So now you’re trying to guess the direction of at least two schools; one you want to get into and one you want to avoid.</p>
<p>I am curious to know why I would care about ranking of my school 10 or 20 years from now?</p>
<p>High Point U is usually on those kind of lists</p>
<p>Oldfort, only six not ten years after graduating from Harvard we moved to Germany. Even though my undergrad degree was not in architecture that was the degree that made German architectural offices take a look at my resume. I know because they said so at the interviews.</p>
<p>Mathmom- of course that is Harvard, and I don’t think it’s sliipping out of the top 10 anytime soon. Your story about your degree and architecture reminded me of a story my dad used to tell. He went to grad school at Caltech. I can’t remember if the story was about him or was some sort of Caltech lore.</p>
<p>Apparently in a graduate Physics class on final exam day the teacher gave the class a final in Chemistry. When the class complained, he basically said that someone with a graduate degree from Caltech should be able to pass a final exam in any science.</p>
<p>Apocryphal I’m sure, but sort of funny.</p>
<p>I’ve already seen more than once PaperChaserMom’s eyes well up with tears on the thought of losing DS1 to college next year. I myself was overcome with emotion justing watch her hugging our son, then I remembered “On Children” by Kahlil Gibran. Many of you have no doubt read it in the past, still, it is quite moving for a time such as now.</p>
<p>On Children</p>
<p>Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.</p>
<p>You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.</p>
<p>You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let our bending in the archer’s hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.</p>
<p>– Kahlil Gibran</p>
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[QUOTE=Pizzagirl]
I cannot find this Kay Kyser anywhere in my USNWR list! I hear it’s good in music, but what about science and engineering? What’s its placement into Goldman Sachs? Will I be able to put the decal on my car without cringing? And what about its sister school, Ish Kabibble? These are important questions. If I don’t get a response within 2 minutes, I will surely bump this post.
[/quote]
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<p>Since no one commented, just thought I’d say that I get it.</p>
<p>mathmom - I totally agree with you on that, but it is Harvard and you were in a foreign country. I went to a small LAC, I think it’s a hot school in the NE, especially with employers now. In my situation, what school I went to (even though it probably has moved up a bit) has no impact on my ability to get a job now. Schools that would have long term impact are the ones that have consistently stayed on top(Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, MIT). We are in our little bubbles here, driven by USNW rankings, but majority people out there do not understand or care about difference between ranking of 15 vs 21. I think it is crazy to try to figure out which school is “under performing” now, and trying to pick it up “cheap,” and to try “profit” from it later.</p>