<p>Vinceh – thank you for the many posts and insights you’ve provided.</p>
<p>I’d like to clarify my use of “chance” because I don’t want to be misunderstood by a wide margin. I understand the chances of our kids getting to any of the T20’s may be lower than the admittance rate of that college, sometimes much lower. I wasn’t confusing chance with admittance rate. You can form a rough idea of the “chance” for a particular school from your school’s Naviance data, if there are enough data points.</p>
<p>Is “chance” used in this context random? Somewhat, but objectively I don’t think it is completely random. I don’t have insight into the non-random part of the deliberation. I believe at least a substantial portion of the non-random part is different for each college, and it changes every year, however slightly. </p>
<p>Each college is composing a well-rounded class, well-rounded not just in its entering freshman class, but the overall student body of the school. An oblong candidate may just be just the missing piece that round out the class. For example, if the school orchestra is looking to fill a vacated bassoon seat, then a bassoon player may beat out a violin player with similar stats. The violin player could be my son, but I’ll never know. Sometimes this perceived randomness on the non-random part is just that. It is only random to the applicants, because they are ignorant of the factors at play. Colleges may very well already know exactly what they are looking for, even on borderline cases, but we’ll never know.</p>
<p>I believe the random part has to do with which adcom member gets to review your app and how your app clicks with that particular person and the mood of this person that particular day. Same with interviews. We’ve heard many stories about how admission offices hold internal meetings to debate the merits of applicants. This implies split decisions, and how much your “champion” is willing to go to bat for you may be the determining factor in the final decision.</p>
<p>In summary, whether the selection process for qualified applicants is completely random or not, as long as I believe my kid is qualified, however low on the totem pole, I can only treat the process as random and assign a “chance” to it to keep my sanity intact.</p>
<p>I understand the chances of our kids getting to any of the T20’s may be lower than the admittance rate of that college, sometimes much lower. I wasn’t confusing chance with admittance rate.</p>
<p>Truer words cannot be said. Now, redirect children to address the next tier. It isn’t a loss. And, as Loren Pope points out, the new tier may not be “lower.”</p>
<p>Just got a really nice viewbook from Yale today. Over 100 full-color pages and full of interesting information. I’ll have to ask my son if he requested it when I see him tomorrow; I wouldn’t think they’d mass-mail something like that, would they?</p>
<p>"I wouldn’t think they’d mass-mail something like that, would they? "
yes they would. NMSF get tons of glossy look books and mail from colleges. I read yesterday that the tip-top private colleges spend an average of $2000 per applicant- this obviously includes the salaries and travel expenses of admissions officers, but still!!! $2000 / student would obviously pay for some very nice viewbooks.</p>
<p>Also to be kept in mind, the adcom rep who reads a student’s app is reading all the apps from a certain geographic region. In this way, the rep can get to know the rigor of the schools in his/her area. With this, they can see how kids from that region compare to one another, so while we may see the best in our own particular applicant, the admissions rep must weight their merits. It’s tough.</p>
<p>When a kid has a particular talent that is valued by the university, it is more likely that a professor/coach/band director has added his/her own letter to that student’s file–in essence advocating for admittance by pointing out the desirability of their special talent. Otherwise, the adcom wouldn’t know the need for an oboe player from a pottery savant. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if an admissions rep makes a case to admit one of her applicants who is a passionate musician, and the rest of the committee says to her–what instrument does she play? And the answer comes out–oboe. The adcom may just say–we already accepted three oboe players. What will we do with a fourth? In that way, the timing of the process and so many other incalculable aspects can doom or tip our students.</p>
<p>Sometimes it’s better not to know too much about such things. :)</p>
<p>Geez! No wonder college has gotten so expensive. We have boxes of letters, brochures, guides and viewbooks that my son has been getting since the NMSF commended awards were announced last year. He rarely even opens any of that stuff. What a waste!</p>
<p>I actually had a very good friend who was the extra oboe in college. It was very frustrating for her, but it didn’t stop the college from admitting her.</p>
<p>My son asked me a question today that I didn’t know how to answer. I’m heavily paraphrasing, but basically he asked if it’s possible to be admitted to a college that’s more than you can handle academically.</p>
<p>This was prompted by the fact that he has a really hard time writing fluidly, and having more than one or two writing assignments simultaneously just kills him. He’s an excellent writer, actually, once he gets the words on paper, but he has permanent writer’s block. You know the stereotypical image of the struggling author sitting at his typewriter, surrounded by hundreds of crumpled sheets of paper, each with just a few words on it? That is my son, one hundred percent.</p>
<p>As mentioned before, his first choice is Chicago, but he’s afraid that the Common Core will require more writing than he can handle at one time.</p>
<p>I think: (1) There’s a high probability that he will come into his own, gain confidence, and learn to write just fine when the time comes. (2) Adcoms are very good at not admitting kids who can’t handle the work.</p>
<p>But I don’t want to dismiss my son’s concerns out-of-hand. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>Now it’s been 30 years since I suffered through the Common Core but maybe in the fine Chicago tradition, it hasn’t changed that much?</p>
<p>As I recall, we had one Hume sequence and one Social Science sequence at any one point. Seems like there were about 3 papers/quarter for each. Not an overwhelming number except I was an awful writer and had no idea what I was writing about. It did get better. They also started basic writing course for those not so gifted. That was after my time though.</p>
<p>It will also depend on his intended major and other subjects he will take. I took math/science as other courses, so not a lot of writing there. </p>
<p>Might ask on the U of Chgo board. Current students could tell you what the general paper writing requirements are for the Core.</p>
<p>“As mentioned before, his first choice is Chicago, but he’s afraid that the Common Core will require more writing than he can handle at one time”
As a parent of a student who’s S was accepted at Chicago twice[ Freshman and again as a transfer]I have to say that Chicago is a poor choice for someone for whom writing is a struggle. My son is a great writer, and he was absolutely swamped with what is expected at Chicago. Once you are there, he found it is not a nurturing environment. Grade deflation is rampant and the profs are very demanding. There were a lot of reasons he thought he wanted to go to Chicago, but more why he wanted to leave. In general, Chicago has the well deserved reputation of being one of the most rigorous colleges in the US. if your son struggles to produce his papers quickly and fluidly, then I suggest he seriously consider other colleges than those that have the core and require copious amounts of writing, unless he has no problems with doing homework during every waking hour.
"There’s a high probability that he will come into his own, gain confidence, and learn to write just fine when the time comes. "
Kids don’t change THAT fast, and the core requirements at Chicago come in the first 2 years of college. he is right to worry about the time pressure to produce pages of writing at Chicago. Another thing to remember- Chicago is on the qtr system[10 weeks instead of 16 for semester], which means students have to hit the ground running each qtr, cause just around the corner are that first mid terms and paper, all due at the same time.</p>
<p>I don’t know m.s. but not having to write is one thing that makes my son a happy camper at CMU. He’s had to take all of 4 semester courses of writing. The freshman writing course, a history course (because he hadn’t take AP Euro), a technical writing course and he’s got one more social science course to go that will probably involve a some writing. He’s loving doing just math, physics and comp sci. My son is actually a pretty decent writer - he got A’s in everything but the history course where he handed in several papers late and was therefore downgraded to a B.</p>
<p>S1 is currently a second year math major at UChicago. He found the HUM’s writing requirements not overwhelming, but he writes fluidly and well (and likes to do it). The Core was a big plus in his mind when considering his options. He strongly, strongly, strongly recommends that anyone considering Chicago sit in on a HUM or SSC class to get the feel of the expectations and discussions.</p>
<p>S2 got a Yale book in the mail yesterday. He said, “toss it.” With S1, we tracked the mailings and weighted them – by the time it was over, he had received 124 lbs. of college mail. He weighed 117 lbs. at the time.</p>
<p>Mantori – I think your son is very conscious of his writer’s block. I’m guessing he’s asking this question because he knows his finished writings are at a very high level and that he is projecting U Chicago kids are all capable of writing at this level, but without his writer’s block problem. If the above is true, then I can see how he may already feel a little outmatched in his virtual projection.</p>
<p>Do you observe his writer’s block only on humanity focused writings (including the self reflecting college app essays)? Does he seem quicker with technical writings? I’d take comments from ihs76 and menloparkmom to heart and call U Chicago to get a clear idea of the writing load required for his major. If the heavy writing is not in the humanities, then tell him that once he is in, most of his writings will be technically focused rather than humanity focused. </p>
<p>Regardless of where he ends up going, I’d tell him that, in all worthwhile scholarly pursuit, initial speed does not matter much. It is okay to have a slow start. What matters in the end is the quality and depth of the final product. The quickest off the block is not necessarily the one who gets the prize. </p>
<p>Finally, I’d answer his question with “Yes, but it won’t happen to you because you are academically qualified to all the colleges you are applying to; if you are not, daddy would’ve told you already.”</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>Disclaimer: I’m no expert in psychology or writer’s block :).</p>
<p>Actually there’s very little ‘technical’ writing, unless you call math proofs ‘technical.’ Yes, there are lab write ups for physics/chem, but that doesn’t count as writing in my mind.</p>
<p>Writing was all for Hume/Soc Sci, and unless things have changed a lot, or my memory has selectively deleted unpleasant things, writing was not the thing that took the most time, but the reading took lots of time. Now it is true that if you know what you want to say in your paper, the writing comes much faster than if you’re trying to make something up to fill up the 3-5 pages. I did a lot of the latter as a first year, but it got much better as a second year once I understood what I was reading and hence, what I wanted to say in my paper. Truism, I know.</p>
<p>When I said technical writings, I was thinking more along the line of science or engineering project reports, which can be hefty stacks of paper.</p>
<p>The story, which I believe is true, is that some rich dude came and offered UChicago millions in the 1960’s (or thereabouts) to start up an engineering school. Chicago said ‘thanks but no thanks, we don’t do trade’ whereupon he promptly offered it to NW to fund their engineering school. Wonder what they’d say now?</p>
<p>Never did a science report that I recall (science major too). No research paper either.</p>
<p>Looked at NW history. Looks like maybe Mr. Murphy at about 1940.</p>
<p>The engineering school offering story is interesting. I’m surprised about no science project or research report though. Is this still the case there?</p>
