Under 3.6 (GPA) and Applying Top 20 Parents Thread

Parents Forum
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<p>Found the following exchange in the [JHU</a> Admission Officers’ Corner](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/johns-hopkins-university/228474-jhu-admission-officers-corner-13.html]JHU”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/johns-hopkins-university/228474-jhu-admission-officers-corner-13.html) thread.</p>

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<p>I know some of us here take whatever adcoms say with a massive grain of salt, but it is still music to my ears when an adcom says “GPA is not weighted anymore than any other factor.”</p>

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<p>Blossom has never failed to impress me with wisdom and insight. Once again, well said!</p>

<p>And if I may further quote Blossom, from a few years ago:<br>
“Love the kid on the couch. Not the kid you wish you had.”</p>

<p>And remember that the kid on the couch may not be a good fit at a T-20 school, but may be a great fit elsewhere. I’m not saying that anyone should abandon a try at any school they want, but it’s our job as parents to help our kids find schools that are good fits for them, and perhaps to inject a dose of reality into the process as gently and supportively as possible. </p>

<p>There’s a well-known university that seems to have everything my D wants - big time sports, good academic rep, easy access to a great city, in a nice town, large but not huge, etc. (OK, why hedge - it’s Boston College). D asked me, “Do you think I’d get in there?” I had to tell her, “Honestly, no. I don’t think they’d admit you. Your GPA and test scores aren’t high enough. You’re not a recruited athlete or legacy, and being a female from our state won’t help you either. You can always apply if you want to - I could be wrong, and the worst they can do is say no.” But she said, “Why waste my time and your money?” and moved on. She found a school she LOVES and is applying ED. But she also has 3 backup schools she likes, and a safety she doesn’t hate. She’s in the mid-50% range at her top 4 schools, although she’s at the lower end of the range for 2 of them.</p>

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<p>Lafalum84 - have you and your D considered Boston University or Northeastern University? Both schools are much easier to get in than BC, especially Northeastern. They may also give good finaid.</p>

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<p>I’ve seen this mentioned so many times on CC, but this time my eyes welled up with tears. Good message only penetrates at the right time. </p>

<p>In a heated exchange with DS1 recently, I told him that I love him. “No. You don’t love me. You love my potential.” He stopped me on my track. What have I done to make him feel this way? I know he said this in the heat of our argument, but it was a wakeup call for me. </p>

<p>It doesn’t matter how many times mom and I tell him we love him unconditionally. Our actions must have shown the opposite to him. It was then it dawned on me again that what we parents express in our anger and disappointment are taken by our kids as true reflection of what we think.</p>

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<p>PCP, thank you for sharing that exchange with your son. You have an opportunity now to reassess and improve the way you relate to him. The mere fact that you are concerned about it means that you will get there. Telling him that you love him is a good start.</p>

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<p>PCP- I still run into the parents of the uber-kids from my kids schools. I nod and smile when I hear of the latest and greatest accomplishment-- and some of these highly motivated, knock 'em dead 17 year olds actually turn into knock 'em dead 26 year olds. They win the fellowships, they are now returning from Oxford and Cambridge and settling down to the life of the phenomenal achiever. I hope CNN interviews me some day when they get nominated to the Supreme Court or win a Nobel prize or a Guggenheim so I get to say, “oh, when he was in fourth grade he was just an ordinary kid like everyone else”. Which of course is a lie.</p>

<p>And some of these kids don’t keep soaring- some of them settle into lives that look remarkably like everyone else’s, no matter how many Phi Beta Kappa keys or the like are jingling on their watch fobs. Some of the kids early promise turned into garden variety hard-working overachiever, and virtually every college in America has a couple of these (or couple of dozen or couple of thousand.) So these kids are struggling to find a job as a financial analyst at an insurance company or an entry level marketing job for an HMO- just like the kids from No-Name U who graduated in the exact same recession.</p>

<p>And some of them took a detour to a very dark place during the end of their adolesence, and are in recovery, or coming back from round 3 of eating disorder clinic someplace mysterious, or working hard to finish up their BA at the local State U satellite branch after a bright start at some fancy school which ended prematurely (probation? kicked out? withdrew after 4 semesters of college but a long string of incompletes and W’s? who talks of such things?)</p>

<p>I have the benefit of hindsight now that my kid on the couch pays taxes and gets up early using an alarm clock (imagine that!) and does his best to “network” (which he used to call something vulgar when his classmates did it in HS) with people in his profession who are in a position to help him. So in hindsight I see so clearly that you have to love and support and parent the kid in front of you, not that kid down the block who teachers adore and principals want to nominate for virtually every award on the planet.</p>

<p>On balance, this thread pains me because no matter how many times you newbies claim that there are actually 40 top 20 colleges I don’t believe your kids believe you. There is much too much examining of the tea leaves of every Naviance datapoint and every adcom utterance if that were the case. I cannot believe that by senior year of HS your kids haven’t absorbed a message that if only they’d worked a scootch harder they’d be sailing into Prestige U, given their intellectual promise.</p>

<p>Well, here from the dark side (post college) to tell you that just as in real life, at some point we all end up working for some moron who can barely read an editorial in USA Today but who makes twice as much as we do… our kids are going to get to the same place in their lives, no matter where they go to college and no matter what their weighted vs. unweighted GPA is, and no matter whether their college superscores, or looks at quintiles and not rank, or whatever. That’s called real life and it stinks- but in America, you can be CEO with a degree from Princeton and an MBA from Harvard, or CEO with a degree from community college and an MBA from Phoenix U.</p>

<p>So go hug your kids. It is hard growing up these days, but knowing that Mom and Dad are in your camp 24/7 and are not anxiously looking at someone else’s kid to see who is getting your seat at their alma mater will make it a lot easier.</p>

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<p>^^^Totally agree with Blossom’s message above and earlier. </p>

<p>When parents ask, what’s the harm in reaching for the stars, the answer may be–in inadvertently showing your kid that you value those stars above all else and you are disappointed in your kid for not having a good enough chance to get there.</p>

<p>As Blossom wisely said, the UG college attended has very little impact on long-term ultimate happiness for most kids. I’ve even felt twinges of pain when reading suggestions that T20 schools are to be valued not for the great profs and education, but because they uniquely offer a dense population of superior peers. Aren’t our 3.6ish kids superior? Of course they are. But the underlying suggestion seems to be the higher tide (all those HS straight Aers) will motivate and inspire the darn lucky 3.5 that gets into their college. While that may be possible, it’s just as likely or more so that the 3.5 kid will feel overwhelmed, underprepared and intimidated in the sharktank.</p>

<p>Everyone in this crazy process benefits when they understand that the chances (per this thread) are slim and the goal (T20)schools are not really that super-advantageous to warrant the anguish and bad feelings from parent to child.</p>

<p>It’s a great time to not only convince your student there are great colleges that will love to have them–but to also truly convince ourselves.</p>

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<p>And sometimes the 3.6ish student got As in college and the 4.6ish student got D in college(real life example). You’ll really never know which kid will do well in college.</p>

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<p>I admit I had said something to this effect directly, so my son definitely absorbed this message. Guilty as charged.</p>

<p>I talked about my view on “success” upthread. I’m not concerned about my kids climbing the corporate ladder or be in a position of power over others. I would like them to live their lives to the fullest in terms of realizing their potential and benefiting others with joy, and be loving, kind, responsible and trustworthy people.</p>

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<p>He already found one campus of our State U dull and lacking. I’m convinced DS1 will do well in any college he ends up in, from HYPSM to State U. My assessment is based on the success he had competing against the best in his cocurricular and extracurricular activities. I honestly believe the main reason his grades are not “up there” is because of activity overload. In retrospect, I am amazed he can still maintain a 3.5+. His guidance counselor came to the same conclusion. Yes, there are kids who can do what he did and still get 3.9 in school, but I don’t think their number will overwhelm him.</p>

<p>Thanks for the follow on advice. I need to work on making sure I do what I say, and not leave DS1 any doubt that I love him, and that love doesn’t change because of what he accomplishes or fails to accomplish.</p>

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<p>So…good advice all around in theory…help me in practice. Son has a 3.4 UW GPA and takes a very heavy load of only AP and IB classes. He’s a senior and has a track record of earning horrible grades 1st and 2nd quarter and then a miracle occurs sometime before the end of the year and he pulls mainly Bs and some As. It is an utter mystery but it has happened since middle school. Typical great test scores of the underachiever. He usually has a lot of extra activities related to his interest in fine arts (extra art classes) and performing arts. he still has the extra art classes (several hours each week) but in the summer he assured me he would not try out for the school play so as to concentrate on college applications…aaaghhh he did try out and wants to participate. Should I say “no”. I really think it will hurt his sleep, his grades (low midterm grades could really hurt his ability to get into his reaches) and his ability to apply to colleges…theatre is incredibly intense right up to December. BUT, it is his senior year…they need male actors…this is his social group too…he will have to learn balance some day…what would you advise?</p>

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<p>speaking as a parent of theater kids… it is pretty tough to ask them to step aside from the show for the reasons you mentioned. Besides, if he’s a senior, it’s time for him to make some of the decisions about what he can handle and what he can’t and to understand the consequences of either decision.</p>

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<p>Re; why shoot for a top 20 school- We have visited 5 top 20 schools, and another 10 in the top 50. It seemed clear to me that the higher up the ladder the school is, the more it offers in individual attention to students, not to mention quality/upkeep of the campus and buildings. Not an analytical opinion by any means, just my impression of each school. So, given that tuition & fees are reasonbly close for all of them, why would I not want the most for my money? If I am spending $500/night for a hotel, I would rather stay in the Ritz than the Marriott, even though the Marriott offers just as good a night’s sleep.</p>

<p>If fees for second tier schools were 20% lower than top 20 it would make them a much more attractive choice.</p>

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<p>samclare,</p>

<p>Does your son plan on studying performing arts in college? </p>

<p>I have two problems with letting him stay in the play. First, he gave you his word that he wouldn’t get involved and then did. So he either appeased you this summer while knowing that he was going to try out, (as well as pretty much assuming that you’d fold), or he’s incapable of seeing the bigger picture that’s out there, re: college and grades. Either way you’re getting nothing out of the agreement. A deal’s a deal and you’re the adult, so unless he’s going on to to study theater, I don’t get why you’re reinforcing bad behavior. </p>

<p>The second thing that bothers me is that 1st and 2nd quarter grades are going to be the last grades that colleges will get to see before making a decision on his application, (barring a deferral). Your son has the ability to pull it out in the end. The problem is that as far as colleges go, this year, the end is December not June. He needs to make some academic noise now, not in April when all the college results are in.</p>

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<p>Merry, if your kid ends up at one of the 5/20 then it’s all good. If your kid is rejected by all 5… if you have a less expensive option which your kid is excited to attend, then again, all good.</p>

<p>But what happens if there’s no less expensive option? If you’re prepared to tell your kid that you’re not going to spend money to send him to a college ranked 28 and not 19 then again, all good. (assuming you’d have the money for number 19). But so many times come April we hear (in real life and on these boards) about the kids who didn’t get into Cornell or Chicago or Dartmouth and Mom and Dad have told them that although Cornell is “worth” the money, the three or four schools which did accept them are not worth that money.</p>

<p>So the kids scramble. And discover that it’s hard to get a bank to lend you money when you have no income and nobody to co-sign. And that putting books away at the campus library at $10/hour doesn’t quite get tuition paid.</p>

<p>So if you’ve got the financial and admissions ducks in a row- more power to you.</p>

<p>There were many colleges that we told our kids that we didn’t think were “worth” the money- not because of their ranking per se, but because there were much less expensive options that offered the same or better academic experience. So I don’t disagree with your philosophy at all. But it’s not fair to withdraw financial support if your kid is excited about Bucknell or Denison or Colgate and you are just not going to pay full freight at one of those schools. Better find an affordable option (merit, need, or just lower sticker price) than leave your kid high and dry in April.</p>

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<p>samclare, don’t say no.</p>

<p>Parents on CC have often been accused of placing too much emphasis on getting into a top-20 school, to the detriment of our kids’ psyches. And yet many of those accusers also tell us that we should keep our kids out of extracurricular activities unless and until their grades improve. (This thread has less of that crap than others; that’s why I hang out here.)</p>

<p>Let’s face it: School is one part of life. A big part, but still just one of many. And your kid has decent grades! He’s not failing. Why deny him the other parts of life just because he isn’t setting world records in the part that is school? In fact, if he didn’t have those other distractions to keep him busy and entertained, he may grow to resent school so much that his 3.4 becomes a 3.0 or a 2.5. Or, worse, his 3.4 becomes a 4.0, but he’s unhappy and resents you for making him that way.</p>

<p>Let your son be in theatre. It’s his last year of high school. The memories will last a lifetime. He’ll thank you for it. And in ten years, no one will care that his GPA wasn’t a few tenths of a point higher.</p>

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<p>“I’m developing what I hope is not an unhealthy cynicism about this process.”</p>

<p>Going deep into the college admissions - starting from the idea that “my kid is good enough for a Top 20 school; just gotta decide which one” - brought me through the same process that one experiences grieving the loss of a loved one; in my case I was grieving the loss of my precious na</p>

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<p>Vinceh…he did reneg on the deal but said that he was approached by the theatre prof the day of try outs and the pressure was on. He admits that he failed to be strong in the face of this pressure but he prefers to not get the part because his audition went badly than because he didn’t support the group my not trying out. S will definitely drop out if i put my foot down and may help on making sets (lot less commitment than being on stage). Son says he has no plans for performing arts as a major but wants to be involved in university/community theatre…it is his “sport” and major EC outside of fine arts (health issues make contact sports a no-go). I also think I should, perhaps, not have asked for the commitment during the summer (he is, after all, a young adult) and we should move away from blanket prohibitions on his behavior (as long as his actions are legal and meet our moral standards–peforming in this particular school play passes that bar–at least it isn’t Equus). As to your comment, “who is the adult here?” I don’t see our relationship really as Adult-Child any longer…anyone who holds a job, drives, can be drafted, makes responsible decisions in his relationships, and is making many other decisions about his future each day is not really a child. He is a young adult and it would be perhaps more mature of **me **to say that I made a mistake prohibiting trying out for the play and it is his decision but here are my concerns given his track record with academics. I also think he (not me) should have a frank talk with theatre teacher about what he can handle with the play. If his grades tank and he goes to safety rather than reach…well, perhaps it means he isn’t ready for reach…</p>

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<p>Samclare, I like your attitude. After all, it is his senior year and this is what he will remember. Who’s to say that a top 20 school is better for him? Maybe he would have a terrific experience at a match school. Or maybe he will get into the top 20 school anyway. What does your son want?</p>

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<p>Kei, thanks! Funny and true in so many ways.</p>

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<p>S1 had a 3.46 HS GPA and has done quite well in one of the toughest academic environments anywhere (a top ten school). He already has grad school opportunities at top universities (including the Ivy league) in programs rated at the top in his area. He has an on-going consulting business and could simply do that and do quite well. This is just utter nonsense to suggest that HS GPA means one doesn’t belong. I find parents are pretty good at knowing of what their kids are capable. Most I know are realistic and only want the best for their kid. We all know stories of the kid who had a 3.5 and couldn’t cut it, we also know stories of a kid with a perfect 4.0 not making it. They are just that, stories. If a kid wants to try for a top college, and the college admits him or her, then in all likelihood that is exactly where the kid should be, and will likely be successful.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the laugh. So true so true… Also, thanks for the warm words from 2 girls 4 me. Part of the adjustment in this process is due to the realization that our kids are so TOTALLY different from ourselves…You couldn’t pay me (or H) to get on stage or paint a mural…H and I are close matches despite coming from different parts of the world–we are the nerdy academic types…always were, always will be. Our S is clearly appalled by our lives as bureaucrats–I think he feels he would shrivel up and die if he had one of our jobs. Long gone are the days when he was 7 and wanted to grow up to be an economist like mommy. The hardest thing of all is realizing that there are many ways to be happy and successful that are not my way (it would be easier to let him follow his dreams if I was miserable and repressed in my choice of career). I had a lightbulb moment. reading these posts… I suddenly realized that my attitude toward theatre may mask a deep down resentment on seeing a gifted mathmetician (his only slam dunk A’s are in AB and BC calculus) doing theatre. Do I value academics over the arts? Would it have crossed my mind to prohibit him from joining the matheletes during his senior year (he found it dull last year)? Or…participate in spanish honor club? If I am honest I would have supported him competing on the math team or robotics club or …anything academic, but instead I prohibited the theatre activity which he values and I clearly don’t. Talk about trying to force my dreams on my kids… feeling the sting…really feeling the sting of hypocrisy…</p>