Under 3.6 (GPA) and Applying Top 20 Parents Thread

<p>Thanks for the laugh. So true so true… Also, thanks for the warm words from 2 girls 4 me. Part of the adjustment in this process is due to the realization that our kids are so TOTALLY different from ourselves…You couldn’t pay me (or H) to get on stage or paint a mural…H and I are close matches despite coming from different parts of the world–we are the nerdy academic types…always were, always will be. Our S is clearly appalled by our lives as bureaucrats–I think he feels he would shrivel up and die if he had one of our jobs. Long gone are the days when he was 7 and wanted to grow up to be an economist like mommy. The hardest thing of all is realizing that there are many ways to be happy and successful that are not my way (it would be easier to let him follow his dreams if I was miserable and repressed in my choice of career). I had a lightbulb moment. reading these posts… I suddenly realized that my attitude toward theatre may mask a deep down resentment on seeing a gifted mathmetician (his only slam dunk A’s are in AB and BC calculus) doing theatre. Do I value academics over the arts? Would it have crossed my mind to prohibit him from joining the matheletes during his senior year (he found it dull last year)? Or…participate in spanish honor club? If I am honest I would have supported him competing on the math team or robotics club or …anything academic, but instead I prohibited the theatre activity which he values and I clearly don’t. Talk about trying to force my dreams on my kids… feeling the sting…really feeling the sting of hypocrisy…</p>

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<p>There are still many unknowns here, so I’ll provide different suggestions here based two different scenarios. If his (not your) top two choices are reaches in the T20’s, how badly does he what to get in to these schools? If his top choices are not in the T20’s or if he doesn’t bawl at getting rejected by his top choices, then I’d say let him be, because you’ve already missed your first opportunity to force him to commit to his promise. </p>

<p>Otherwise, you need to let him know by not focusing on his first semester senior grades and giving all he has on the college apps, he is taking a huge risk of wrecking his chances at his dream schools. If he is a mature adult, he ought to be able to differentiate between short term desire and long term goal, and prioritize his time appropriately. I know you said he is already a young adult, but c’mon, even us big adults often fail to do the right things. Remember even though he can drive and get a paid job, our government still says he is not mature enough to vote or drink. He is still your minor.</p>

<p>I would perhaps sit him down for a mature adult-to-adult conversation. Learning to balance an overwhelming schedule is important for success in college, T20 or otherwise.</p>

<p>Pull out a dayplanner. Pull out the syllabi for his classes and have him enter everything on his calendar. Pull out the schedule of rehearsals and performances for the plays. Have him put those on the calendar as well. With everything out in front of him, have him plan a schedule showing when he will do what assignments, put aside time to study for tests, do homework etc.</p>

<p>My son played on a club soccer team that travelled all over the US in addition to his high school team (rated top 10 in the state all 4 years he played) and this is what we had him do. It helped him immensely to see his obligations in concrete form.</p>

<p>He used the dayplanner to block out time for his major academic obligations, his soccer schedules, and the schedule for his major extracurricular activity, working backward from due dates in addition to blocking in time for general for regular homework, etc. We each kept a copy.</p>

<p>Before he could accept a random social opportunity, etc., he learned to check his dayplanner to see if it fit his schedule…if it didn’t fit because he was already booked? Oh, well…He was learning the consequences of choices. There were times when he could accept an opportunity that came along if he could find an acceptable time on the schedule to rebook the obligation already scheduled…</p>

<p>His schedule wasn’t graven in stone but he was much more aware of not wasting time.</p>

<p>kei o lei…my favorite post ever!</p>

<p>boysx3 i am printing out your reply and giving it to my freshman. he is excited about his enormous high school and all the sports and extra curricular activities,but he still has a demanding schedule and science fair. the school as a whole is a low performing school so this will help him see that other kids have lots of demands on time and how they deal with it. also that he doesn’t have to forget about school work to do other activites as so many classmates are (33% freshmen don’t pass 9th grade)</p>

<p>kayakmom - (33% freshmen don’t pass 9th grade)</p>

<p>WOW! Either your school is doing something right & not inflating grades or there is so much going wrong that these kids can’t see school is their “job”</p>

<p>In our area the parents would never permit this. I’m certain there is much grade inflation & “passing kids thru” just for the heck of it.</p>

<p>notnim:
lowest performing school in the district,about 25% go on to a college
that is the reason the school board put this stem (science tech,engineering,math) program in place to attract more high performing kids.
he can take some good classes but the level of academic interest is quite low. for instance at his middle school everyone did science fair and here a handful do. they are giving a math test in which the high performer will get a scholarship and only a few kids signed up…</p>

<p>kei–great post</p>

<p>samclare–you seem like a very centered parent. It’s hard to give you advice without more info, but here are two thoughts.</p>

<p>1) You said he loves this activity and it involves his social group–this is the last year these theatre kids will be together. Seems like a really big sacrifice to ask him to drop out of his senior play. Could he instead drop his part-time job, or?? Could he commit to doing extra homework/studying on the weekends? </p>

<p>2) His continued passion for the arts (fine art and theatre) should mean a number of teachers who will write great recs–including this director. Not sure he would be well-served to drop out of the play at this point as it may be a huge disappointment to the department–and letter of rec?</p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>

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<p>merrecho, I agree the top 20 (I’d make that top 30 or 40) are fabulous schools. But I am surprised you found large class-size and untended campuses the lower on the USNews list you went. What you describe sounds like the criticism we hear about large public Us. </p>

<p>While that may be the case with some of the lesser state Us, I found the expensive private colleges we visited reflect the price tag when it comes to beautiful, well-kept campuses and individual attention to students. There are things that are lost the lower down the selectivity chart one goes–and I agree with PCP that there can be less serious-minded and intellectually driven students at the less selective schools. </p>

<p>Frankly, it’s more common on CC to see parents question the value of spending over $50K/year on school’s with less name-value (prestige), than those who find the T21-50) lacking. That is a whole 'nother topic best left off this thread.</p>

<p>The hope, however, is to help our kids find a range of schools that we can get really enthusiastic about–and among those, schools our kids can actually get into.</p>

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<p>I don’t necessarily agree with this. In fact, H and I remarked after visiting an LAC that’s about #50 or thereabouts that some of the facilities were far nicer, and there was much more evidence of paying individual attention to students, than our own top 20 experience.</p>

<p>PCP
The whole grade/test score/admission match is not at all clear cut when a kid wants to do fine or performing arts. Art schools say they really care about the portfolio (MICA, RISD, SAIC) although decent grades and test scores are a must for the very top (RISD). If you look at average test scores and grades at the art schools he is well above the 75%, particularly for scores. Also he is male and hispanic…a relatively rare commodity in the art schools. However, S is applying to some good art programs in vey good universities (WashU St Louis, Carnegie Mellon, big midwest U). Even CMU (first choice and, we think, medium reach) places 50% weight on the portfolio if you apply for fine arts. WSTL which says portfolio is secondary to grades/scores so this is a high reach. Big Midwest Univ does not consider the portfolio in admissions and OOS is going to be a moderate reach but he is a double legacy. Local State U (his safety financially and academically) pretty much only cares about the essay and portfolio for arts students and the grade/testscore is only relevant to get into the honors college. Some nut at the chicago art institute suggested that my S apply to Yale ??? because of test scores and portfolio. I could have slapped him since Yale is a fantasy rather than a reach. </p>

<p>He may get some good recs from his math and art teachers for his creativity if not for his work ethic. I just want him to realize that a last ditch effort to get his grades up will not necessarily help him get into the reaches, but weak mid term grades (Cs) could adversley affect his medium reach and safeties. Would you say that is a fair assessment?</p>

<p>Blossom: I was really proud whenS2 told us he diudn’t want to apply to X or Y because he felt that while tey were hihgly ranked, he didn;t think they were “worth” the money. Others will disagree with his assessments of the schools, but I found it encouraging that he was weighing the value of the education he’d get vs. the expense. His benchmark is our good flagship. </p>

<p>This is my kid who at age three pointed to a Motel 6, siad, “That hotel has a six on it. We can stay there.” Guess the financial brainwashing worked. :)</p>

<p>samclare, you are spot on about your role in managing your son’s grades and ECs at this stage. By senior year, the difference between a semester grade of A and a B is 2/ or 3/100ths of a GPA point. Not worth the angst.</p>

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<p>I wasn’t sure from your earlier posts that your son intends to major in fine arts or wants to go an art school/program. Given this understanding and his URM status, you are in a different game. I’m not familiar with art school admission, but I do know portfolio is very very important to them. Years ago, a friend of mine got into UC Berkeley Architecture program almost solely based on his portfolio strength. Btw, does your son have any art awards? If so, that should also strengthen his application. If not, he might want to check to see if he can enter one soon.</p>

<p>A mid-term grades jump is going to help him if he already has a fine portfolio. Otoh, a sharp mid-term grades drop, will hurt his RD chances at some colleges. If finaid is not an issue, I’d recommend ED to CMU.</p>

<p>My friend’s daughter got into Wash U largely based upon her portfolio. I’d say your son has a good chance there with his male/URM status. (By the way, she loves Wash U but works day and night in the art school.)</p>

<p>D1’s friend from NJ Governor School performing art program got into NYU with a full scholarship because he was a male ballet dancer. According to D1, he wasn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer either. </p>

<p>There was another young man who got waitlisted at Yale and went on to BU. He had a beautiful voice and played trumpet. He auditioned at both places. I think he is pre-med at BU now. He didn’t have 4.0 in high school because he was involved with plays, band, and singing almost professionally.</p>

<p>Do you think being in theatre is a hook, of a sort, for science-and-engineering colleges? My son is not dedicated to the theatre by any stretch of the imagination, but he was once voted Male Performer of the Year in his school (for the one role he played that year), and last year he sang two duets in five performances of a musical. (It was produced by high school kids but performed for the public at a local theatre.) He also did some set design. This year he intends to be in another production in some capacity. I know that at most colleges this would not make him very special, but I wonder about nerdier colleges where kids tend not to get involved in the arts so much.</p>

<p>that is an interesting question mantori…i can’t wait to hear the replies…i have a similar situation with a child who loves to dance and sing… and be on the math team and do science fair!</p>

<p>S1 applied to science/engineering programs and was very involved on the “tech” side of high school theater - set design & construction, lightning, sound etc. He was the first stage manager/assistant director in his school’s history to be awarded a senior Arts Award. In the end, school’s, if they said anything at all, seemed to view it as an example of a strong commitment to his EC. I suspect you’d have to make it a big part of his essay, (i.e., “Theater is an important part of my life and a major part of my decision to apply to XYZ U is based on the opportunities available not only in the sciences but undergraduate theater as well.”), to have it grab any amount of attention from an admissions committee.</p>

<p>I know someone who got into Johns Hopkins for theater. However, she truly was a theater person, not a techy person at all. I agree with getting it into the essay.</p>

<p>I had to post this delicious piece of college irony:</p>

<p>Dartmouth and Penn are playing football right now on Versus (sports cable channel). Scrolling across the bottom of the screen are scores and upcoming games…“T-20 – LSU (#4) vs. Georgia (#18) 3:30 pm…UC Davis vs. Boise State (#5) 8 pm…Virginia Tech (#6) 27 vs. Duke 19…USC (#7) vs. Cal (#24) 8 pm…”</p>

<p>Guess it depends on one’s definition of T-20, eh? :D</p>