<p>4 years studying business is a waste. Get an MBA later in 2. That’s more valuable.</p>
<p>^ Don’t mind RML, he seems to have an obsession (obsession would be understating) for Berkeley. Look through his post history if you’re bored.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I concur (and with the exception of Accounting, I have long advised high schoolers on cc to earn a liberal arts degree instead of undergrad biz). But the OP was clearly not interested in that path.</p>
<p>bluebayou, Cal Haas is a top dog, we all know that. But because it is a public-run school you don’t think it’s worth it for OOS? How is that a sound, sensible logic?</p>
<p>I brought up the Sloan program because it is Haas’ peer program obviously, albeit Sloan is private. But Sloan, like Haas, does not guarantee graduation. I’m emphasizing guarantee here because it looks like it’s one of your major concerns, apart from the stigma which seems you have for public institutions. </p>
<p>I’m not arguing that Haas would be a safer path. We both know it only has a 50% admit rate (maybe less than that.) But no school guarantees a hundred percent graduation rate, not even Wharton. In other words, there are risks at all schools, even at the very top schools like Sloan, Stern, Ross and Wharton. So, risks are something that’s always there at any academic institution, you just have to deal with it cautiously. Maybe by not taking the Haas path is your “clever” way of dealing the risks, but it still doesn’t justify your statement that Haas isn’t worth it for OOS.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Why would you have to transfer to another school if you won’t get into Haas? You can stick around and still comply with what the OP really ultimately wants. Remember that this is what OP asked: “Which schools in the west coast have strong business, finance, or entrepreneurship programs doesn’t have to have the major per se, just strong foundation in those areas”. </p>
<p>Both econ and Industrial Econ can well provide the OP’s needs, and I’d argue that Berkeley, as a university, can well provide the other needs (entrepreneurship) of the OP way much more than any West Coast school can except Stanford. There’s a strong culture of entrepreneurship at Berkeley and many start-ups were born there. If the OP would mingle with the right people, he could feel what a school like Babson can provide for him even if he’s not at Haas.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But I don’t think USC can be similar to Babson in a sense that entrepreneurship is somewhat a culture in the university. How many start-ups were established there compared to Berkeley?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, the only obsessed here are those people who constantly fight “tooth and nail” to claim that UCLA = Berkeley. These are the people who has an obsession that UCLA = Berkeley.</p>
<p>Now, since we’re talking about business education in this thread, allow me to give you some data of the number of students who ultimately get into top grad business schools. According to a survey conducted by Poets& Quants, there are 84 people at 6 of the top 9 grad business schools from Berkeley as opposed to there are only 41 from UCLA (and 25 from USC). The data don’t have numbers from Sloan, Kellogg and Haas yet. When the numbers from those 3 remaining solid top 9 business schools are tabulated, that gap between Berkeley and UCLA would balloon even more. So, let’s stop this hallucination that Berkeley = UCLA. The data would all us that it isn’t. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14480907-post20.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14480907-post20.html</a></p>
<p>And, according to sakky, who’s an HBS alumnus, there are 45 Berkeley grads currently matriculating at Harvard Business School, the most prestigious business school on the face of the earth! On the contrary, there are only 17 from UCLA. So, even HBS doesn’t think Berkeley = UCLA.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14484380-post22.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14484380-post22.html</a></p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sure you are, just for the sake of it. (Either that or your critical reading skills need a refresher.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>…AFTER sophomore year of college. (Your graduation chance is zero if you can’t get in.) But since I guess I am not very good in making clear, I give up.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I have stated several times now, that there are ZERO colleges on the west coast that are similar to Babson or Bentley, which are business-only colleges. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Gotta clean those reading glasses. I have never said nor inferred such a thing. (Not that you care, I am extremely fond and supportive of Cal (xiggi and I have had all kinds of online arguments), Michigan, Virginia, North Carolina, et al; my kids even applied to several publics, both instate and OOS.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Tell me, why can’t Haas be like Babson or Bentley, with regard to what the OP wants?</p>
<p>Well, I don’t think this was the first time you said Berkeley isn’t worth for OOS. I’m sure we have had arguments about this in the past.</p>
<p>
</a></p>
<p>Let me show you to the mirror here and bring to your attention:</p>
<p>Who really seems to be obsessed with comparing Berkeley to every single peer institution and then hilariously try to make the claim that someone else is obsessed with comparing Cal to UCLA? </p>
<p>This is almost sad, RML. In order to be taken seriously by anyone (forget me, I am talking about all of CC), you need to at least come off as sane when comparing the love of your life, Berkeley, to other colleges and giving advice.</p>
<p>In addition to the other schools, you should also look into Chapman University. Chapman has an excellent Business program and has a Nobel laureate professor.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Absolutely correct. I have been extremely consistent in my opinion. But you still need cleaner glasses, since you are confusing my position, which has always been that UC is not a good deal for OOS, but can be a great deal instate.</p>
<p>UCs at instate rates are excellent for wealthy kids, which receive zero financial aid, and for poor kids which have the Blue & Gold. (But the masses of middle class students, who would be full pay at Cal, should look to privates for comparisons, and particularly COA. I sent my son to Dartmouth for less than the instate price at Cal, for example.)</p>
<p>With the exception of Eng & Chem (colleges), I do not think Cal is with the OOS price. (I would include Haas in my exception IFF Haas accepted Frosh, but it doesn’t so I don’t.) </p>
<p>I have also said that Michigan is not worth the OOS price (much to Alexandre’s chagrin). UVa offers full financial need to OOS’ers, so it is a great deal. Carolina is still a good deal for OOS’ers since it is less costly than most others. Another good deal. UW-Madison is a great deal for top kids, since they offer schollies, bringing down the COA, and it is easy to get into OOS.</p>
<p>So see, I do support public schools.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If you have to ask that question…I truly give up.</p>
<p>bluebayou, I do not disagree with you regarding Michigan. No university is worth getting too much into debt for. I have always maintained that position. I assume you are saying that Michigan is not worth OOS tuition if one cannot afford it, just as other peer institutions (such as my other alma matter, Cornell, or Northwestern or Penn) are not worth it either, under similar financial restrictions. </p>
<p>However, for those who can afford it, attending a university like Michigan (or your own son’s college, Dartmouth), which offers an excellent undergraduate education, is worth every penny. Where Michigan differs from many of its peers is in its ability to provide 100% need blind financial aid to OOS students. That is a weakness the university will require some time to overcome.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, thank you for the clarification.</p>
<p>bluebayou, there have been many threads on the Michigan forum where students ask if it is worth attending Michigan at a high personal cost to the family (relative to the family’s financial situation), and in virtually all cases, the answer has been a resounding “no”. It is never justified to squander a family’s nest egg or drive oneself into the abyss of financial debt in order to receive an education, no matter how good. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, public universities are already highly subsidizing in-state students. As such, providing OOS students with financial aid is really difficult. Fortunately, Michigan’s endowment is growing nicely and should be able to offer more generous packages in the not-so-distant future.</p>
<p>It’s interesting that you mentioned sending all of your children to study in liberal arts, bluebayou. At the risk of going off topic, and if you don’t mind, can I ask why? I see how a lib arts undergrad + MBA would be a more diverse course of study though I like the thought of spending 4 years in business studies and another 2-3 again for MBA despite the repetition. And, as pointed out in this thread, there aren’t any schools there with an exclusive 4 year business study like B/B so I might as well take branch out and take advantage of what’s around, like lib arts.</p>
<p>And, thanks for all the great mentions and advice guys. I did some digging around and some of them sound pretty good. Though, can someone clear something up for me? Is it an actual advantage for a university to require another application into their school or is it not a big deal?</p>
<p>Take for example: USC. From what I gathered, I make it past the USC admissions office and then they would pass my application to Marshall. If Marshall says no, then I get rejected from USC entirely. However, if they’re set up like UCB, (I’m assuming) then I would get into UCB since I made it past the admissions office, and then would have at least a year or two before applying for Haas, giving me a second shot instead of being rejected straight out in the first round of admissions.</p>
<p>Or, is it: both UCB admissions and Haas have to accept me but I have to re-apply again in a year or two for Haas, despite having Haas giving the okay on my application? I kind of want to prepare myself by understanding how this is set up, since it was mentioned in the previous posts.</p>
<p>You are partially correct. At USC you would apply to Marshall, who would accept your or not. If not, no chance at USC arts & sciences. </p>
<p>If you apply to Cal, you can only apply to a college that accepts Frosh (which excludes Haas). The vast majority of students interested in Haas, apply to Cal’s College of Letters & Sciences ("L&S’). Once you matriculate at Cal, and late Soph year, you would apply to transfer from L&S into Haas. If your transfer app to Haas is not approved, you will stay in L&S (or Engineering, or whatever undergrad college that you start at). You will then have to choose a major in L&S in which you will graduate. (Econ is a popular major for biz types that want to stay in liberal arts.)</p>
<p>I prefer liberal arts for the readin’ & writin’, and I believe it to be more broadening (and rigorous) than a ‘vocational’ major, such as biz. Plus, with an MBA, much of the undergrad stuff would be redundant, IMO. Others will disagree.</p>
<p>So, bluebayou, when will a school be worth it for OOS? </p>
<p>Can you mention some of these schools (aside from HYPSMC)?</p>
<p>And, if you don’t mind answering it, what did your son major at Dartmouth?</p>
<p>^^Man, reading is not your strong suit? An engineer, perhaps? :)</p>
<p>My opinion for Cal is clearly stated in #32.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>At Davis it would be enology. BME at SD.</p>
<p>Otherwise, I would recommend a top ~30 private for the same money, or attending instate college for free. Many/most states are extremely generous to high stat students, which means anyone with the numbers to get into Cal.</p>
<p>Think about the gist of this thread, which is about business. And business is all about the value prop. What is a better value: Cal at $200k or one of the 'Zonas for (essentially) free (with $200k left in the bank)? Hmmmmm</p>
<p>Of course, an I-banker wannabe needs to go to the most prestigious school that s/he can since The Street are prestige hounds and the prestige is worth the OOS price. Prestige is also extremely important to internationals (much moreso than domestics). But others just looking for a biz degree?</p>
<p>(Just using 'Zona as an example. Or, it could be a full ride at 'Bama, which includes OOS.)</p>
<p>RML, all of the Ivies besides HYP as well as Duke are worth it over Berkeley OOS since they have stronger recruiting than Haas and you don’t have to apply internally to get into the “target program” within the school like Haas is for UCB.</p>