<p>UC_Benz, to answer your question of whether I work for a survey company, why don't you ask the same of Alexandre? He's the one who first talked about how he hast the backing of all kinds of recruiters who say that Michigan is definitely in the top 10-15. Funny how I don't see you question him with the same fury you question me. Allies of convenience, perhaps? </p>
<p>However, the last 3 posts are indeed veering towards a much more interesting topic, and that is the nature of academics as a whole. Again, I never said that Michigan was a bad school, in fact, I think it's a quite good one. The question to me is whether it is as good as some of the others, namely places like Harvard. And let's indeed restrict ourselves only to the academics. </p>
<p>I don't disagree that you CAN get just as good of an education at Michigan as you can at Harvard or anywhere else. But that's not really the point. The question really is, statistically speaking, what are the chances that you will? Anything CAN happen, the question is what is likely to happen? For example, a guy who is unusually resourceful, dedicated, and brilliant can probably get just as good of an education just by reading books from the local library as he can at the best school in the world. But that doesn't mean that everybody should trade school just for a library card.</p>
<p>The reality of the college academic environment is that it is profoundly affected by the quality of the students around you. This is something that seems to be rather poorly understood by those who have never been within a college campus environment. Yet surely you all remember having a particularly good round-table discussion in, say, English class, where some of your students really had a lot of interesting things to say, and you really learned a lot from the other students. The better, more prepared, and more creative the other students are, the better your education gets. On the other hand, you must agree that the opposite is true - when the students are not that good, they are less prepared, when some of them haven't even bothered to do the reading, then it is your academic experience that gets impaired. When you're the only one that is saying smart things in a discussion, and nobody else is saying anything good, you really aren't learning much. </p>
<p>Furthermore, most of the academic experience of any particular college takes place outside of the classroom. Remember, college is not like high school. In high school you go to school, and then you go home. You live at your college. So you are hanging around other students all the time. You spend a minority of your time in the classroom, and you will spend most of your time hanging out with the other students. When those other students are sharp and well-prepared, then just by hanging around them, you will tend to learn more. When they are not that good, you tend to learn less. </p>
<p>Finally, let's not discount the ever-present social factors. Let's face it. Human beings are social creatures and tend to copy what they see around them. When somebody sees everybody else around them studying hard, accomplishing important things, and so forth, then they will tend to do the same. But when somebody sees people not really studying very much, blowing off class to go to parties, and the like, then that person will tend to do so also. </p>
<p>The upshot is that if you want to maximize your chances of getting a strong academic experience, you want to be in a school with a highly selective and well-stoked student body. Let's face it. On average, the quality of the average student at Harvard is higher than that at Michigan. Hence, you will tend to get a better education if you go to Harvard, for all the reasons I mentioned above. That doesn't mean that you can't get just as good of an education at Michigan as you can at Harvard. If you happen to be an unusually mentally strong and confident person, you can get a tremendously strong education at Michigan, or anywhere else for that matter. But the fact is, most people are not unusually mentally strong and confident. Hence, you should do what it takes to improve your odds. </p>
<p>Look, at the end of the day, nothing guarantees that you will get a strong education. Nothing. There are no guarantees in life. But what you can do is improve the odds. I am perfectly willing to say that attending Michigan-Ann Arbor improves your chances of getting a good education over attending, say, Michigan-Flint. That's what we're talking about - you can't get a guarantee, but you can move the odds to your favor.</p>
<p>Now to Roger_Dooley - you have also hit upon an important point. Yes, some of the difference in schools has to do with the simple quality of the students. Hence, student quality matters. However, keep in mind, it matters both ways. In many ways, elite colleges are a signalling mechanism to employers that you happen to be of a certain quality. That's why employers tend to prefer to hire Michigan graduates over Michigan State graduates, on a per-capita basis. And that's why they really like hiring, say, Harvard graduates. Hence, one important reason for you to attend the best school you can get into is to signal to employers that you happen to be a member of the pool of top people. Employers are more assured of the quality of students coming out of Michigan than out of Michigan State. So if you are good enough to get into Michigan, but elect to go to Michigan State, then you will have problems in signalling to employers that you are just as good as those guys coming out of Ann Arbor. A lot of those employers will simply think that you went to Michigan State because you weren't good enough to get into Michigan. Whether you think that's fair or not fair, that's what will happen. By associating yourself with a more selective school, you are signalling to the market that you are a member of a more select group of people.</p>