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<p>You contradict yourself, micro. If it is truly zero, then there would be zero conversation. The fact that it comes up “rarely” means that it is no zero. :rolleyes:</p>
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Thanks blue. I picked up on that too but for some reason could not figure out how to say what you said in a coherent manner.</p>
<p>@Microglia
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<p>Do you really believe this? After attending 12 MSTP interviews, I am convinced the applicants UG is considered in some way. For example, at one interview a comment was made that my high GPA was an indication that I “didn’t challenge myself” in undergrad. I know the comment wasn’t about the number or level of the classes I took (almost all science classes were upper division with some graduate level). I felt that implicit in the comment was “why didn’t you go to a top 10?”. I don’t know exactly how much of a difference it makes, but it certainly can’t be “0%”.</p>
<p>Serves you right for overloading yourself and still getting a 4.0 GPA. :D</p>
<p>You should have just turned in one or two blank finals.</p>
<p>MD/PhD programs tend to care 0% about what school you went to and 100% about GPA, MCAT, and research. Currently at a top 10 MD/PhD…believe me, its rarely even in the conversation.</p>
<p>*I would definitely agree that they care much less than medical schools, but it’s definitely not zero. *</p>
<p>Interesting. While I can understand that MD/PhD programs care about MCAT, GPA, and research, I would have thought that they might pay attention somewhat to undergrad name. </p>
<p>Why would med schools care more?</p>
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<p>plumazul,</p>
<p>Don’t you think that you may have underestimated their intelligence? Don’t they know that there are students who choose to go somewhere else because of the fullride scholarship? Perhaps, you should have told them that you were looking for the best offer from medical schools too. :)</p>
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<p>I don’t know if there’s any data to back this up, but intuitively, it would seem that UG research record is a better predictor of future success as a researcher than UG coursework (or MCAT) is of future success as a physician. Since research record is a stronger predictor, you can feel more secure in taking a kid from a lesser known school who has shown their chops in the lab whereas a med school would be more inclined to want to fall back on the brand name of the top schools and their selection process since they have less accurate things to go on.</p>
<p>Anecdote time on medical school and UG prestige: </p>
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<li><p>When I was interviewing for a medical school in Florida, all interviewees were asked to introduce themselves, and part of that was saying the name of our UG institution. One of the head guys was very fun, and tried to relate to each of us. A lot of rah-rah UF vs UMiami rivalry going on during the introductions. One girl said she went to “top 5 LAC”, and the director drew a blank stare. “Where is that?.. in ‘state?’…and why would you go there?” </p></li>
<li><p>My friend is a medical student at a state school and is interviewing prospective applicants this cycle. An interviewee from HYP was ripped apart post-interview by two other interviewers for being full of herself. My friend tried to stand up for her, saying she is reasonably confident and should be proud, considering her accomplishments. </p></li>
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<p>@plumazul</p>
<p>I do agree that MD/PhD programs may consider undergrad.</p>
<p>“For example, at one interview a comment was made that my high GPA was an indication that I “didn’t challenge myself” in undergrad. I know the comment wasn’t about the number or level of the classes I took (almost all science classes were upper division with some graduate level). I felt that implicit in the comment was “why didn’t you go to a top 10?”. I don’t know exactly how much of a difference it makes, but it certainly can’t be “0%”.”</p>
<p>What was your major? You attend Maryland, right? A very fine respectable research univ. I wouldn’t take too much from ONE person’s words. S/he may just be a top-school-snob…lol…or he could just be plain wrong that you didn’t challenge yourself. I think it’s the latter. I doubt that it was a cake-walk for you to get A’s in those upper-division/grad classes. </p>
<p>More to the point, if he had a top 10 school 4.0 GPA applicant in the seat and he said the same thing, then what would that mean? </p>
<p>I agree with Ace’s answer that some choose the full rides…and also some fabulous college students weren’t super in high school, so attending an ivy-like school wasn’t ever an option. BUT, that aside…, there is the simple fact that NOT every top high school student can get into a top 10 school. There just aren’t enough seats!</p>
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<p>Obnoxious, arrogant students exist in all schools. It could be HYP one day, then instate public flagship the next.</p>
<p>bluebayou - No doubt. In this instance, however, I think it was a problem of perception, not the student’s attitude. </p>
<p>^^if that’s the case, doesn’t it reflect more on the interviewer(s) at the “state” school? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>You mean you have not found the icons yet? @-) </p>
<p>negative, tex. In this new system, I’m lucky to find the threads that I follow. hahaha (instead of a smiley face)</p>
<p>@bluebayou, what did you mean by this statement, found on one page earlier:
What is a research record? Are you referring to the student’s research record or the school’s record? If I am reading this post correctly, are you saying that students who have strong research experience in their profile are stronger candidates overall, regardless of their gpa?</p>
<p>sorry, lima, but I can assure you (without looking) that the quote that you referenced is not mine. :)</p>
<p>Oops. I meant to ask IWWB.</p>
<p>bluebayou - Yes, absolutely. I never said it reflects poorly on the applicant’s alma mater. I purposefully left it open for interpretation, but I think the example shows that a “prestigious” school can work against you, and that’s not something people anticipate. I am also not saying that people should turn down prestigious schools because someone, at some point, might hold it against them. I am just showing that the world is a more complex place than it seems at first. Better to know that and be ready, than be surprised when people don’t fawn over your prestigious degree for the rest of your life. </p>
<p>@limabeans,
Research record means the student’s record so things like length of time spent doing research, ability to discuss the work in depth (the MD/PhD AMCAS has a separate essay that is just describing your research as well as obviously on the interview), the language in the LOR, and publications.</p>
<p>Your last question is tough but I’m kind of inclined to say that yeah, GPA can be lower if your research is great. For example our PhD program has a much lower average GPA than our MD program (both of which are lower than MD/PhD). </p>
<p>The point I was really making is that compared to my med school class, which is a who’s who of top 15 schools, the proportion of MD/PhDs coming from much less prestigious schools is way way higher than in the MD program. This was a trend I saw replicated on the interview trail at other schools as well. The kid with the most ridiculous MSTP results I met my cycle was from Lake Forest College and had something like 16 acceptances out of 18 applications with basically all but a couple of those at top 20 schools. I bet that kid wouldn’t have had the same success in straight MD - sure, he’d probably have gotten into a couple of the big dogs, but a dozen of the top 20? No way.</p>
<p>I was speculating that the reason for this trend is that at that stage of the game, it’s easier to predict a good researcher than a good physician so the MSTPs were salivating over the kid from lake forest while the MD programs would rather just take the brand names which are generally safer bets.</p>
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Isn’t it more so for the pure PhD programs (i.e., not MD/PhD programs?) </p>
<p>I remember that a few years ago, a CCer who was from Duke college observed that it seems the majority of students from similar caliber colleges (in terms of “brand name” of UG college) are preprofessional students.</p>