“the typical applicant from Amherst probably will have better LSATs than the typical applicant from UFlorida. But there is no way to evaluate that factor”
You kind of can. LSAT scores track SAT/ACT pretty closely. Last I checked, the undergraduate college with the highest mean LSAT was Harvard College with 165. In other words, the average Harvard College graduate interested in law school has little chance at the top 14. Colleges with lower incoming SATs will have lower outgoing LSATs. They’ll move more or less in lockstep.
Really, I’m not sure what your point is exactly. What rule or lesson are you attempting to draw here?
Yale is such a rarefied case, because it’s so small, that I’m not sure if you can draw many generalizations from it. Probably it’s better to choose larger, top-ranked programs, like Harvard, NYU, etc. Take an aggregate of their entering classes and see if you can find some sort of correlation between school and acceptances. There probably is a correlation, but there are many top students who go to state schools and smaller schools that give merit aid to top students, because of financial reasons, for their undergraduate studies. Also law schools have multiple departments and areas of study that they like to find new students to populate. That rare department in X school might find the single wonderful candidate from New Mexico Tech one year and the next year from Colorado School of Mines and the third from a nifty undergraduate school in China. you never can tell exactly.
I’m going to let this discussion drop because I don’t know what the purpose of it is any more.
Would you mind discussing this with me either by e mail or you can call my cell. I went to business school and I have no knowledge of law school to advice my son. Thanks already for your insight
Also for the UF students, going to the University of Florida Law School, or Florida State’s Law School, is MUCH cheaper than Yale. And if you want to live and work in Florida…
@ironcity50 I am a lawyer and a pre-law professor. I dropped out of UCONN in the middle of a semester, finished at a local state university and aced the LSATs with absolutely no prep course and on an economics BS. I attended QU Law School on a scholarship. My advice to you is this - choose an undergrad school that is both comfortable for your son and affordable. Drop the idea of having to go to Yale law school etc., unless of course your son is intent on environment law or saving the world, and focus more on guiding your son on how to establish contacts and think analytically and critically. Also, encourage your son to join a mock trial team. Once you have a job, no-one cares where you received your degree, in fact, not one client has ever asked me which law school I attended rather, my clients are much more interested in how many cases I have tried to conclusion and what my results have been for clients. Law has provided a great career for me and I wish your son the best of luck!
For the record,I just used Yale Law as an example to illustrate the point that the top law schools do care about where you got your undergraduate degree. I could have chosen any of the top 14, and I’m sure that the same principle would have played out. No, it’s not the only thing they care about, and yes, if you achieve high enough, you can go to the top law schools from any undergraduate school, but where you went does make a difference when other things are close to equal.
I also am a lawyer, and have taught at a law school. The biggest thing to understand right now is that the legal market is extremely overstaffed right now. There are way too many new lawyers every year chasing way too few jobs. As a result (and perhaps more than ever before) it matters where you go to law school, assuming you want to be gainfully employed when you graduate. The students coming out of schools like Yale and Chicago and Michigan and Georgetown are getting the lion’s share of the few good jobs that there are out there. The students who make Law Review (top of the class) at other law schools also do fine.
But right now, you do NOT want to come out of a mid tier or lower law school in the middle or lower part of your graduating class unless you already have connections to a potential job. The legal job market is just brutal right now.
It sounds like things worked out really well for xaviermom.
On the other hand, I come across per diem lawyers who meet a client on the morning of a court case, because the big law firm that represents the client prefers to hire them as temp workers.
My father-in-law is an extremely successful lawyer who went to a public university. He graduated decades ago, with no loans to pay back. Brother-in-law is also a lawyer. He graduated about 15 years ago, and does not practice but instead handles real estate and teaches law at a private university. Both discourage our kids from entering law because of the glut of law school grads.
Best friend’s husband is also a lawyer. He graduated from a public university (undergrad) and a mid or lower-tier law school about 10 years ago. He stays afloat only because he was wise enough to plan to practice family, immigration AND criminal law. That and his wife manages the office. He also discourages our kids.
Of course, S #1, a sophomore, has decided on law school. His advisors tell him to either go to a top 14 school, or a generously-funded spot at a mid-tier school, or choose another grad school option.