Undergraduate Research

College Search & Selection
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<ol>
<li><p>The premise is false (there is some cutting edge research).</p></li>
<li><p>The premise is false (the grad schools know these LACs and their professors).</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>[[1. The premise is false (there is some cutting edge research).</p>

<ol>
<li>The premise is false (the grad schools know these LACs and their professors).]]</li>
</ol>

<p>Rrrriiigght, yet somehow the top 10 liberal arts colleges in USN&WR combined have a single member of the National Academy of Science on faculty–at Davidson. ONE!</p>

<p>[National</a> Academy of Sciences:](<a href=“http://www.nasonline.org/site/Dir?sid=1011&view=basic&pg=srch]National”>http://www.nasonline.org/site/Dir?sid=1011&view=basic&pg=srch)</p>

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<p>Thanks, I’ll take a look at Davidson</p>

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<p>Go to the school website and look at the research pages yourself. See if the school funds your summer (or semester) projects. You will have a better chance to get the money, otherwise you have to compete for REU’s. There should be some info on undergrad research in general. </p>

<p>At Brown for example, they give grants for both. My kid was able to get grants of $3,000 for 2 different summers. When she did not get grants she took jobs, one with a Physics professor who took her team to the FERMI lab. Although Brown is a Research University, the grad departments are small and they always use undergraduates to work on professor’s projects alongside the grad students. It is often just a matter of showing up and asking. They just opened the NSF funded Institute for Computational and Experimental Research in Mathematics. And they have a PLME program but I understand it is extremely difficult to get accepted. I just mention this school because it is what I know, admit rate is pretty low now. </p>

<p>While publication is a nice bonus, you don’t need it to get admitted to PhD programs. Just have the research participation. Yes Pomona and Occi have research experience. I know that Smith College give research grants too, if you are a female.
<a href=“http://www.pomona.edu/academics/research/surps.aspx[/url]”>http://www.pomona.edu/academics/research/surps.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Don’t discount the fact that many large public universities have undergraduate research journals. At my UC, we have one for social science/humanities majors, and another for math and science majors. In addition, a few of the major department organizations (e.g. Political Science Students Organization) publishe members’ work. </p>

<p>OP, I would do a simple google search of ‘____ undergraduate research,’ and that should get you somewhere. </p>

<p>Here are a few of the websites:</p>

<p>Berkeley: [Research</a> Home](<a href=“http://research.berkeley.edu/]Research”>http://research.berkeley.edu/)</p>

<p>UCLA: [Undergraduate</a> Research Centers](<a href=“UCLA | Undergraduate Education | Undergraduate research inspires UCLA alum’s future career”>UCLA Undergraduate Research)</p>

<p>UCSD: [UCSD</a> Undergraduate Research Site](<a href=“http://ugresearch.ucsd.edu/default.asp]UCSD”>http://ugresearch.ucsd.edu/default.asp)</p>

<p>In addition, the larger research schools have more research $$, and thus may pay for you to travel to research conferences, or provide summer research stipends, etc. I have friends who, as freshmen, were traveling to other states and continents to do research with professors (I’m a rising junior, and am currently doing research in Europe, made possible by previous research positions in my frosh/soph year at my home college). No matter where you go, you MUST take the initiative, though. This is especially important at large schools. Don’t be afraid to ask a prof if they have any need for research assistants, of if they will advise you on an individual project. Rarely will they say no!</p>

<p>Also, although research probably shouldn’t dictate your college choice (i/e ‘fit’ is most important), the reputation of the university IS important, because you will have the opportunity to work with ‘bigger name’ professors. That may not seem like a big deal now, but it is when they’re a former presidential advisor or pulitzer prize winner (situations which are not unheard of for undergrads at my university). And don’t worry about not doing enough, I have actually never heard that complaint at my school. Most of our profs are working on textbooks or journal articles, so they work their RA’s pretty hard. And if you don’t feel that it’s substantive enough, just switch to a different research position! They are rarely binding, most work on a term-by-term basis.</p>

<p>Hope that helps, feel free to PM with more questions. Cheers and good luck!</p>

<p>PS- I will add that I honestly believe good research exists at every good school, public or private. Which is why I made the point about going for fit first. You will thrive where you are most happy. Big research schools will have more research opportunities, simply because of the sheer size of the institutions (for example, UCLA has up to 5,000 research projects going on at any one time. That surpasses the entire student body size of many LACs). But, this is not to say that good opportunities do not also exist at Davidson, Brown, etc.</p>

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<p>OP, Here are some points for your consideration, did you see this thread?
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/980097-small-college-vs-research-university.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/980097-small-college-vs-research-university.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>

That depends on one’s definition of cutting edge research, I suppose. Given the fields with which I am most familiar, archaeology and marine science, I don’t really see much of a difference. </p>

<p>In archaeology, a dig in Cyprus run by Davidson or in Greece by Dickinson is no different from one run in Spain by Boston U or Peru by UNC. Likewise, the research typically done by LAC undergrads in marine science at Eckerd or COA is pretty much identical to that done at Cornell or Brown. </p>

<p>If you’re going to make such sweeping claims, at least take the effort to qualify them. Research experience may possibly be an issue in a select number of highly specialized fields (e.g. a student interested in nanotechnology), as LACs do not always have the money or inclination to acquire the appropriate technology. The most important drawback about research at LACs, however, is simply that a smaller faculty body means a less diverse range of research activity. </p>

<p>In any case, most students acquire a considerable chunk of their research experience over the summer, which is quite often done at other universities or abroad. For these research opportunities, of course, it matters little whether a student comes from a LAC or university. </p>

<p>

And yet LAC graduates can and do perform perfectly well in graduate admissions. </p>

<p>Take Caltech as an example, which publishes its commencement data each year. The most recent graduating MS/PhD class included students from Knox, Occidental, Dickinson, Lawrence, Wellesley, Wheaton, Mudd, Williams, Claremont McKenna, Bryn Mawr, Smith, Wesleyan, Swarthmore, Vassar, Mount Holyoke, Oberlin, Grinnell, Carleton, Franklin & Marshall, and Reed. </p>

<p>Alternately, take a look at the Goldwater scholarships. The most recent batch included students from the College of the Atlantic, Barnard, Wellesley, Oberlin, Conn College, Amherst, Bryn Mawr, Rollins, Grinnell, Lewis & Clark, Bowdoin, Hamilton, Davidson, Wesleyan, Calvin, Macalester, Muhlenberg, Pomona, Union, Vassar, Middlebury, Hobart & William Smith, Williams, Juniata, Willamette, Lafayette, Wooster, Franklin & Marshall, St. Olaf, and Ripon. </p>

<p>To use your numbering system, we have two scenarios:</p>

<p>1) Professors on these admissions committees are unintelligent and choose to admit unqualified LAC applicants.</p>

<p>2) These students actually do have research experience on par with their university counterparts. </p>

<p>Which do you think is more likely?</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the information guys. I have seen that thread and read the comparisons. I think I am still leaning more towards an LAC! Too bad you can’t really get the best of two worlds in one. I guess the closest may be something small, like Rice?</p>

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<p><<too bad=“” you=“” can’t=“” really=“” get=“” the=“” best=“” of=“” two=“” worlds=“” in=“” one.=“”>></too></p>

<p>That is the smartest sentence in this entire thread. Unfortunately, life generally happens betweens the extremes…in that sloppy grey area in the middle. That is the case with the LAC v Research U. debate. It’s not cut and dried as some would want you to believe. One type has the upper hand in some areas of ug education and the other type in other areas. It’s sloppy and imprecise, and each individual needs to decide what the best fit is for them.</p>

<p>FWIW, the best of both worlds happens at my grad institution: Chicago. There is, however, a rub. That rub is that U of C is a very “particular” university, and one most definitely needs to fit the U of C type to succeed there undergrad.</p>

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<p>Furman has great weather. Another LAC with great science internships is Holy Cross. Holy Cross built a $70 million science facility that is top-notch. Might look at the HC website for more details.</p>

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<p>a plug for Wesleyan - an LAC by definition and ranking (2,800 undergrads and 200 grads, entirely residential, liberal arts curriculum, very undergrad focused), yet offers the MA and PhD, and features cutting edge stem cell research (I doubt that’s at almost any other LAC). </p>

<p>Small, university-like LACs (like Wesleyan) and LAC-like universities (like Princeton, Dartmouth, Brown - all 4,000-6,000 undergrads) seem like where you can get the best of both worlds…</p>

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<p>Thanks, I’ll look into Chicago, Holy Cross, Wesleyan. Princeton, Dartmouth, Brown…they all sound great, but I doubt I’d get accepted!</p>

<p>And while searching for LACs, I came across Reed. It seems like just what I want…does anyone have any info about Reed that they would like to share?</p>

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<p>It’s easy to make a big place small, but hard to make a small place big. Keep that in mind if size is a determinant for you.</p>

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<p>These schools are consistently cited as providing research opportunities for undergraduates:</p>

<p>Amherst
Bryn Mawr
Carleton
Dartmouth
Grinnell
MIT
Oberlin
Pomona
Princeton
Reed
Swarthmore
Wellesley
Williams</p>

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<p>Here is another group that is less selective:</p>

<p>Agnes Scott
Bard
Beloit
College of Wooster
Kenyon
Knox
Lawrence
Occidental
Puget Sound
Santa Clara
Sewanee
Whitman</p>

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<p>^ ballet girl,</p>

<p>What is the source of your list? I am curious what data they use to draw their conclusions. Thanks.</p>

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<p>These are insights cobbled together from various sources among them are:</p>

<p>Myriad discussions on College Confidential</p>

<p>[nsf.gov</a> - SRS Baccalaureate Origins of S&E Doctorate Recipients - US National Science Foundation (NSF)](<a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/?govDel=USNSF_178]nsf.gov”>http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/?govDel=USNSF_178) - tab2</p>

<p>Books like Colleges that Change Lives by Loren Pope</p>

<p>Etc. </p>

<p>There is no one definitive source.</p>

<p>The lists above are meant to representative, not definitive.</p>

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<p>Interesting, thanks for the list!</p>