LAC-ish Universities

College Search & Selection
1

<p>With the college application season approaching, I figured it was time to think about what colleges I would be applying to.
I want to study math/physics at a university with ample research opportunities available for undergrads, but I like the philosophy behind the LAC. I'm looking for schools that are not so cutthroat competitive but where intellectualism is fostered. I'd like a school that has good grad school placement too, in case I decide that's what I want to do. Primarily, though, I want to attend an institution where the emphasis is placed on the undergraduates. However, I don't want to give up the valuable opportunities from universities such as the broader array of classes available, possibility of taking graduate-level classes, and research opportunities. </p>

<p>So, in short, my question comes down to: What are the most LAC-ish Universities? What universities come to mind from my description?</p>

2

<p>MIT and Caltech are both great schools for science undergrads -- research opportunities are plentiful, and it's quite common for students to take graduate-level courses or for courses to be joint between undergrads and graduate students.</p>

<p>You might also consider looking into Harvey Mudd -- even though it is an LAC, students there seem to have great access to research opportunities. There are several posters from Harvey Mudd on CC, and I'm sure any of them would be happy to help you decide whether HMC is "too LAC" for you. :)</p>

3

<p>Rice, Brown, Tufts</p>

4

<p>look at small universities such as rochester, brandeis, carnegie mellon, dartmouth, tufts, emory, rice, chicago</p>

5

<p>My suggestion is one of the oldest schools in North America (and the alma mater of several U.S. presidents):</p>

<p>The College of William and Mary</p>

<p>(It is actually a major research university, but kept the name "college" because it was founded in 1600-something)</p>

6

<p>Newly announced in May, 2008:</p>

<p>Click here to read about the physics team moving from George Mason U to Chapman University in Orange County, California </p>

<p>Chapman</a> University</p>

<p>Excerpt:

[quote]
World-Renowned Physics Team to Join Chapman Faculty
Computational Science and Physics Team Coming to Chapman from George Mason University</p>

<p>Team Includes Yakir Aharonov, Ph.D., Wolf Prize Winner and Co-Discoverer of the Aharonov-Bohm Effect, One of the Cornerstones of Modern Physics; and Menas Kafatos, Ph.D., University Professor and Former Dean of the School of Computational Sciences at GMU</p>

<p>Jeff Tollaksen, Ph.D., Keun Hang Yang, Ph.D. and Hesham Al-Askary, Ph.D. team to establish Chapman’s new Department of Physics, Computational Science and Engineering and the Center of Excellence in the areas of applied and fundamental science

[/quote]
</p>

<p>plus another vote for Brandeis University in Massachusetts</p>

<p>Both mid-size universities focus upon undergraduates and are around 5,000 people. Brandeis goes right up through Ph.D., while Chapman is a national Masters University which means it educates up through the masters level. In general you'll find the Brandeis community more intellectual in tone , 30 minutes to Boston. Yet, with this powerful new department at Chapman U you might find exactly the serious undergraduate guidance you hope for in a more easy-going sunny Southern California location, 45 minutes to Los Angeles.</p>

<p>These are just 2 that I know. I'm sure the other recommendations are great, too. I'm not so sure Carnegie Mellon is reknown for its attention to undergraduates, but I've heard that Rochester is.</p>

7

<p>Yeah, as a Carnegie Mellon alum there is no way I would characterize this school as LAC-ish. It's very pre-professional.</p>

8

<p>Thank you all for the responses (:<br>
Out of the one's mentioned here's what I'm looking further into: </p>

<p>Harvey Mudd
Rice
Brown
Rochester
Brandeis
Dartmouth
William and Mary
Emory
Chicago </p>

<p>Schools I'm not so sure about:
MIT & Caltech (although excellent schools seem much more grad focused)
Chapman (religiously affiliated)
Tufts (not as strong in intended field of study)
Carnegie Mellon (as advised by two above posters) </p>

<p>Anything I should add or take out? Of the ones listed, I have become particularly fond of Brown due to its strong LAC-ishness. What schools are most similar to Brown? </p>

<p>Thank you for all the help.</p>

9

<p>MIT and Caltech certainly have graduate students (and excellent ones, at that), but as an undergrad at MIT I never felt that I was a second-class citizen to the graduate students. If anything, at MIT (and I assume at Caltech as well) I felt that undergrads were treated like grad students, and everyone was treated as a respected member of the academic community.</p>

<p>If you're interested in hearing more opinions (though you may not be, and that's fine), both the MIT and Caltech boards here on CC are populated by plenty of current students, parents, and alums who would be happy to discuss this further.</p>

10

<p>I think you should check out the universities in the Master's category in US NEWS.</p>

11

<p>If you want an LAC-type interactive educational experience, why would you categorically reject LACs?</p>

12

<p>molliebatmit: I'm really glad you provided that commentary with your own experiences. I have looked through some threads on the MIT boards (especially <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/297073-negative-undergrad-experience.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/297073-negative-undergrad-experience.html&lt;/a&gt;) including some of your old posts which have convinced me that my views are misguided. I suppose they stem from a science teacher at my school (graduated from UCB) who would say that most big-name schools (esp. MIT and Caltech) offer poor quality instruction for undergrads. Now that I think about it, my teacher did say that he was rejected from MIT (and was probably bitter because of that). In fact, MIT/Caltech used to be my dream schools, so to speak, before what my teacher said, so I guess they're back on the list. Thanks.</p>

13

<p>I would add Princeton to the list for sure. Pton, along with Dartmouth and perhaps Brown, are the most LAC like Ivies.</p>

14

<p>Sorry, when I was typing my previous post, I didn't see that others had posted before mine. </p>

<p>interesteddad: I wouldn't say it's a categorical rejection, as I am willing to consider HMC. I am in no way against LACs, as they offer a fine quality instruction that I actually happen to like. But I often hear things about LACs that make them seem less attractive than universities for my interests, like how certain classes are only offered ever other year in some cases, or less research, etc. </p>

<p>danhernan: Why do they split that ranking by region? I'm not that knowledgeable on these places and the opportunities available (I'm especially concerned about research). With this in mind, do you (or anyone else) have any specific suggestions?</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
I wouldn't say it's a categorical rejection, as I am willing to consider HMC. I am in no way against LACs, as they offer a fine quality instruction that I actually happen to like. But I often hear things about LACs that make them seem less attractive than universities for my interests, like how certain classes are only offered ever other year in some cases, or less research, etc.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's what I was trying to figure out. Sometimes you "hear" things that aren't true.</p>

<p>Students at top LACs do a ton of research work, most of it paid. The colleges themselves don't have as many research contracts, but the research money they bring in is all focused on undergrad participation, both during the school year and summers. </p>

<p>For example, my daughter's LAC has fully funded and endowed slots for 55 science research positions each summer ($3750 stipend each). There are only 100 to 120 math, science, and engineering majors each year. Show me a university where half of all science division majors can get a paid summer research position each year.</p>

<p>That is not to mention the fact that small lab groups taught by professors means that you can actually do science in your labs.</p>

<p>As for teaching elective course every other year, so what? Unless you plan on flunking one, you aren't going to take the same course two years in a row. The schedules are announced for several years in advance, so when you submit your plan of study for your major, you know when each course is offered. It doesn't really matter if you take the Dostoevsky course this spring and the Tolstoy course next spring (or vice versa). We aren't talking about only offering intro Biology every other year!</p>

<p>I don't care, one way or the other. It just struck me as odd that want the educational experience of an LAC, but aren't looking at LACs. That's all.</p>

16

<p>And to add to what IDad said- consortiums like the Claremont schools, Tri-Co (Swat/Hav/Bryn Mawr + UPenn), the Amherst one, etc. really help the number of courses available.</p>

17

<p>Look at Wake Forest too.</p>

18

<p>Wewet
From US News "Like the National Universities, these institutions provide a full range of undergraduate and master's programs. But they offer few, if any, doctoral programs. The 574 universities in this category are ranked within four geographic areas—North, South, Midwest, and West—because, in general, they tend to draw students heavily from surrounding states. Like all U.S. News categories, the groupings are derived from the basic classification framework established by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching in 2006."</p>

<p>About research, these Master's universities might provide you with what you need. I don't know your stats, but since you are in CC probably they are top notch, so these schools might be a safety for you. I just google trinity university research on google and found this which might be useful for you Trinity</a> University Mathematics .</p>

19

<p>WashU is in the same vein as others mentioned, such as Rice, Brown, Tufts, Brandeis --- smaller-to-medium sized unis with a LAC-like atmosphere yet still offering university-level opportunities. </p>

<p>Chapman is definitely an up and comer. They also lured Nobel-prize winning economist Vernon Smith (the father of experimental economics) and his team to establish a program that works with undergrad and graduate students.</p>

20

<p>I'm going to suggest an LAC that's rather good in science and also seen as slightly more university-esque, with some graduate students, than most other LACs - Wesleyan.</p>