<p>is going to a good undergrad really that important? isn't it the same when you just going to a decent undergrad and then off to a good grad school?</p>
<p>No it is not important. If you get a doctorate, go to med school, go to law school or get a prestigious MBA; the only effect that going to a prestigious undergrad school is going to have on your life is the extent to which you can impress your neighbors and friends. This leads to four other points:</p>
<p>1) It is not necessary to attend an elite undergrad college in order to get into a good grad program. If you go to Harvard and are in the top of your class, it will help. However, going to Harvard and being in the bottom half of the class because of competition (the median SAT score must be 1530-1540) will not help. It would be better to go to a good public uni where you might be able to obtain a better record. It is not as if the top grad school only take people from the ivies and four other schools. For doctoral candidates, it is not that hard to get into the top grad programs. For Med/Vet/Pharm/MBA candidates, the main thing is just to get accepted somewhere. The key to this is gpa, and not where you went to undergrad.</p>
<p>2) If you are not getting a lot of need-based financial aid, then you might be better saving your money for grad school.</p>
<p>3) Going to an elite private school is probably, for most people, going to be a nicer experience than going to a large public univ. The classes, even the freshman Calculus, classes will be smaller. The campus will be nicer, etc.</p>
<p>4) If you don't go to grad school, going to an elite college will help you get your first job. The top companies recruit on the top campuses. After the first job, though, you will still be able to impress the interviewers to some extent, but the main thing they will care about is your work experience and what you did on your last job.</p>
<p>but a good undergrad helps get a good grad school.
Teaching is also better</p>
<p>Its like this, not getting an Ivy type isnt a big deal, getting it is a worthwhile attempt and is great</p>
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but a good undergrad helps get a good grad school.
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</p>
<p>A good undergrad is only helpful in getting into a good grad school if you do well. If it comes down to being a mediocre student in a good/great undergrad or a good/great student in a lower tier school I think the latter would be more beneficial. A good school isn't going to help you at all if you do terrible there.</p>
<p>One problem with this argument: There is no bottom half at Harvard (or alot of other top privates). Really, look at the average, I think its like an A- or something. Once you're in you're golden for the next for years!</p>
<p>...auto matriculation anybody?</p>
<p>point conceeded scarletleavy...</p>
<p>But as gentlemanandscholar pointed out... most people in good/great schools do well.. Their teaching ansfacilities will be superior and thats a big benefit</p>
<p>Most people. But if there are top students, there also must be bad students. Not everyone gets A's, or at least everyone shouldn't get A's. There has to be some kind of comparison.</p>
<p>iff you skim the cream, and take it. It will always float... some higher than others, but high nonetheless</p>
<p>They look at class rank. Not everybody is in the top decile at HYP just because they are all outstanding people. </p>
<p>There is a kind of math joke that I'm not even sure that everybody gets. "Half of all people are below average."</p>
<p>haha</p>
<p>Speaking of math jokes</p>
<p>There are 10 types of people, those who know binary and those who dont!</p>
<p>That's good, and.....</p>
<p>There are two kinds of people, those who divide everything into two groups and those who don't.</p>
<p>and there are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who cant </p>
<p>:D these are too funny</p>
<p>I wasn't actually speaking about the quality of the student bodies at these schools (although they are very good). I was actually talking about the extreme grade inflation. Its DIFFICULT! to flunk out of some of these schools. You have to make a serious effort to get bad grades.</p>
<p>must be as tough as getting a 200 in SAT math....</p>
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It would be better to go to a good public uni where you might be able to obtain a better record. It is not as if the top grad school only take people from the ivies and four other schools. For doctoral candidates, it is not that hard to get into the top grad programs.
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</p>
<p>You assume that going to a public school means automatic higher grades. Also, getting into top graduate programs are tough, really.</p>
<p>
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3) Going to an elite private school is probably, for most people, going to be a nicer experience than going to a large public univ. The classes, even the freshman Calculus, classes will be smaller. The campus will be nicer, etc.
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</p>
<p>They're very different environments, that's for sure. You're right about class sizes in most cases, yes, but the campus being nicer? That's a questionable assertion.</p>
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For doctoral candidates, it is not that hard to get into the top grad programs.
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</p>
<p>Huh? Come again? Perhaps you'd like to talk to my brother, who knows plenty of students who did very well at Caltech, with good grades, good research experience, good rec's, and nonetheless couldn't get into any top doctoral programs.</p>
<p>
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For doctoral candidates, it is not that hard to get into the top grad programs.
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It would appear that I have used language that was too strong. The statement is meant in two ways. One, in comparing the difficulty with getting into the top undergrad programs. Two, in comparing the difficulty of getting into med school and similiar programs.</p>
<p>There is a unbelievable funnelling of undergraduate applicants into a very small number of schools. This is based on brand consciousness and the fact that every val with a 4.0/1480 who was a student council president thinks that they are a lock for the ivies. With grad school, this funnelling doesn't exist since the applicants are more specific about their fields of study and it is harder to define what a top grad school is. For grad school, the top programs are not all located in a small number of school. The absolute top college for your area of graduate study may be the U of Wash.</p>
<p>Med school admissions is not even on the same scale as doctoral program admissions. First, the med schools are tougher. Second, if you can't get into med school, you can't continue. There is no program anywhere that you can not pursue at the doctoral level at some college somewhere. If you have it in your heart to study Plasmic Physics with the top people who have all won Nobel Prizes in it and they are at UCLA (?), then admissions would be tough. This is why my statement was too strong.</p>