OK, let’s settle this already a la Hamilton-Burr.
At dawn, 10 paces, pencils drawn and solve the calculus problem. 
1 Like
Yes.
I knew that MIT had a phil major but wasn’t aware that Cal Tech had English and Phil. Now that would be a particularly interesting opportunity, to do a humanities subject at Cal Tech. Economics there is slam-dunk good, no question about that.
1 Like
I listed 4 specific reasons why the course does not appear to use calculus. Obviously stating it uses calculus without addressing any of these reasons or providing any evidence is not going to convince me otherwise, nor is saying that the portal advises students to have previously taken high school chem/physics. If you really believe calculus is basic math subject, then it should not matter whether the class uses calculus or not. As stated in my earlier post, it is time to agree to disagree and move on. I will no longer reply to posts on the subject of whether the class uses calculus.
Yes, Caltech offers a few humanities majors. It’s quite uncommon for students to attend Caltech with the expectations of majoring in humanities, but it does occasionally happen. There was a post a few months ago in the Parents forum in which someone mentioned going to Caltech with the intention of majoring in history, as I recall. You can find it with a search, if interested.
Your earlier post did not restrict it to just a small list of specific peer colleges. If you mean only a small list of specific colleges that do not include LACs, MIT, Caltech, … , it’s good to say so.
Consider it said. Here’s my reasoning: As we are attempting to make a meaningful comparison between UChicago and other schools, it makes sense to choose those institutions that have reasonable similarities to one another. Students looking to apply to college won’t be considering just one factor (ie ability to take non-major science); they will consider several (academic rep, research opportunities, career placement, E/C’s, campus environment, location, etc). Now, some LAC’s can indeed make the list, assuming that they are of comparable quality and have reasonably similar science offerings (they will most likely suffice on the humanities side). Many will apply both to universites and LAC’s. But most on that list will be liberal arts programs set within the context of a research university. There are several, not merely the top five-10. Looking at most in the top 20 is fine; no need to get more fancy than that. Add some state flagships (Michigan, UVA, etc) with strong lib arts. Cal Tech kind of obviously doesn’t make the list because it doesn’t offer non-major science nor does it have comparable humanities offerings. A humanities student just isn’t all that likely to apply to a tech institute. Once the theoretical list is made, one can look through the number of science offerings in the “non-major” category (ie open to everyone, satisfies general or distribution requirements) and compare to UChicago’s nine subject choices available in a quarter. Most will have more than nine choices simply because they have a different approach to general ed than UChicago does.
I can’t find Math 180 in UChicago catalog. Can you point me to it? I did find Math 163, the next course in the Honors series. It’s on multivariable calculus but it isn’t part of the core curriculum. Correct me if I’m wrong. I assume the 160-series are supposed to be taken by the top math and science students at UChicago. Is there another more advanced series on the same subject that top students can take instead of the 160-series? I’m looking at this from the perspective of a trained physicist (but not a practicing one). I’ll send the problems to my S to get his contemporaneous view.
@sushiritto , slapping leather might be the best way to settle this matter - i.e. quickest draw of those ever lethal slide rules from their leather holsters strapped to the belts of the duellists. To be a top gun in that skill you would likely have to be septuagenarian.
For physical sciences students interested in the MATH 18300-18400-18500-18600 Mathematical Methods in the Physical Sciences I-II-III-IV sequence of courses, success on the online Mathematics Placement Test can also earn an invitation to begin MATH 18300 Mathematical Methods in the Physical Sciences I. Specifically, all students who have placement into MATH 15300 Calculus III and some students with placement into MATH 15200 Calculus II will earn this invitation.
*. . . *
Students who opt to take MATH 18300-18400 instead of MATH 15300 will receive examination credit for MATH 15100 by completing MATH 18300 and for MATH 15200 by completing MATH 18400.
http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/examinationcreditandtransfercredit/
Correct. You only need to take two math courses to satisfy the Core; the third or higher part of the sequence would typically be counted as a major course. You can see that by looking up some of the stem or econ major requirements.
The math department introduced 180’s a couple years ago in order to create a more comprehensive mathematics complement to the physical sciences majors. This sequence might be more applicable to your metier, @1NJParent. Similar to 160’s placement, only a subset of students are eligible to take 180’s. Both sequences are invite only. As of Fall 2020, 164 were enrolled in 160’s (correction: 230*) and 136 in 180’s. In contrast, 725 were enrolled in 150’s. See my post #241.
I’d say for Physics, 180’s seems to be the preferred sequence these days.
*Forgot about 160’s IBL which is a different pedagogy for 160’s than the traditional lecture. In Autumn 2020, there were 66 enrolled in IBL, making 160’s total equal to 230 (164+66).
Thanks for the link.
The 180-series are basically applied math for scientists and engineers. They aren’t the most rigorous (not even proof-based). Its main purpose seems to be breadth (combining various mathematical methods useful for scientists and engineers) rather than depth.
The IBL-series and Math 207 appear to be the most rigorous at UChicago in the subject area.
Why are all these courses (along with 160s and 180s) by invitation only at UChicago? Are these courses offered every year?
The 160s are offered every year. You do have to start the sequence in the Autumn quarter. Also, unlike the 150’s you can’t start in the second or third level by placement. I believe that everyone that is offered 160’s has Calc experience through at least at a normal Calc 2 level. For example, my son was offered either 153 or 161 as a starting point based upon his placement test. About 12% of the student body takes the 160’s. So, it does require an invitation but they invite a lot of students. Students that get a 5 on AP Calc BC will receive an invite to the 160’s.
Yes, they are offered every year, AFAIK. 207 is a small enrollment (30-50) - not sure how many first vs second years are included there. I presume these various “higher” math sequences are invite only because they aren’t the standard Calc series which will work for most majors and there is evidence that enrolling in a math course over your head at UChicago can be counter-productive. Math is a cumulative subject so it’s best to start from where you actually have ability and skills. As you can see from my earlier posts, that’s typically somewhere around Calc II of the standard track.
Seems like it is supposed to be similar in concept to the baseline “calculus” course at Caltech, where the prerequisite expectation is strong knowledge of “regular” calculus as taught in most college courses and high school AP courses. Except that the Caltech “calculus” course is probably much more difficult.
This is a good explanation. Timing is a factor I forgot to mention explicitly (although I used autumn because that’s when the sequence starts). 180’s seems to be a bit more flexible for timing because there are sections of 183 taught in both autumn and winter. Not sure if that’s a transitional matter as the new sequence gets established or whether they are holding out the option of offering 183 for further “foundational” mathematical study once you have completed Calculus. For instance, someone who did honors Calc or 152 in the Fall might want to switch into 183 as they finalize their major plans.
Is the IBL-series also offered every year?
Some colleges leave it to the students to decide (or try). For example, Harvard doesn’t place restriction on its well-known Math 55 series.
After some overview/intro, the Caltech regular course goes into real analysis (UChicago’s Math 207 is also an intro to real analysis).
1 Like
Yes.
Correct, and student are known to drop out, sometimes in large numbers. A lot depends on how quickly you can recover from that. For instance, kids switch down from 160’s and get credit for work completed to date, but if they were drowning and didn’t turn anything in, that wouldn’t look very good on the transcript. The 10 weeks moves very quickly and you only have a limited window to Add/Drop (edit to add: and Add/Drop deadline is always before the first midterm which is a tad annoying. I suspect the rules for switching out are different for math but still . . . my guess, overall, is that the goal is to disrupt the student’s progress as little as possible for the duration of the quarter).
Yes, it has to because you have to start the series Autumn quarter of your first year. I guess you could technically take no math class your first year, but I don’t think anyone interested in the class would do that. You also don’t take any of the 160’s if you did either 130’s or 150’s. If you took either 130’s or 150’s and want to continue with Analysis in Rn, there is a standalone proof class (159) to develop that part of your toolbox first.
I think for 207 placement you have to do well on the Higher-Level Placement exam (perhaps analogous to MIT’s Math Diagnostic exam?). You are invited to take that exam prior to Autumn quarter but after they see the results of your Math Placement test.
I was wondering about that Math 159 class.
MIT’s corresponding course is 18.100, taken with consent by a student’s advisor.
Caltech is also on the same quarter system, but its add/drop deadline (for any class) is after the midterms. Caltech doesn’t even enforce prerequisites/corequisites, so students can try any course.
"I’m with @CU123 on this one. @1NJParent since you are clearly shocked, you will need to enlighten the rest of us so that we comprehend your issues better. "
It’s pretty short for a final, even for a quarter course, what’s the time limit? You would expect a Calc 2 course to have more, tougher integrals that students get how to solve right away, or not. The tougher part of Calc 2 is not even that but the conic sections, surface areas. I do some Calc tutoring on the side and this is a good, but not a hard test.
@1NJParent, from what I know of other places, UChicago is more strict in general. But that probably makes sense given that university’s distinct understanding of the gen eds and intro sequences.
Easy answers first: Honors Calc may have one or two midterms. 161 looks like it has two, and 162 looks like it has one, based on syllabi I could find online. Finals appear to be two hours in length. It’s possible the instructors will tailor their specific sections but that’s what I’ve seen.
As to content, I’m not sure which exam you are looking at because neither the 2019 nor the 2020 exam asks the student to solve any integrals. There are six proofs and a computation of a Taylor polynomial. Calc 152 (Standard Calc II) has many more computation-type questions on the final. I believe surface integrals are covered in the Rn sequences and I believe in Calc 180’s somewhere.