University/Liberal Arts vs. Art School

College Majors Visual Arts and Film Majors
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<p>My son has always been passionate about attending an art college. He has attended National Portfolio Days and had great feedback. He is a junior at a high school for the arts on an academic and art track. My question is, is he better off going to a university/liberal arts college or attending an Art School. Some schools he has considered are RISD, Ringling, MICA and RIT. I am beginning to question if it would be more beneficial for him to graduate from a liberal arts school. What are the benefits to art school or visa versa for his career options? Also, how would we find out want colleges and universities have the strongest art program?</p>

<p>Thanks so much.</p>

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<p>There are several very good art programs in liberal arts colleges or with combined degree programs, such as RISD/Brown, SMFA/Tufts.
Good national universities with strong art schools are, Wash U, Carniege Mellon, Cornell, NYU, USC, to name a few. Look up any college and see if they have a Art, Design, Architecture School. That's a good start</p>

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<p>KIMB, At this point in your son's life I would suggest that he focus more on finding the college/university that best fits his personality and learning style and less on which will help him most in his life's work. I don't mean to say that earning potential is unimportant -- in today's economy I can't think of anything that's more important -- but there are so many variables in any person's career path that it's difficult to predict what will turn out to be most beneficial.</p>

<p>Art schools are for kids who want to be around kids who make/think/talk art 24/7. There are plenty of kids who know that this is exactly what they want, even at 17. If your son is one of those then I doubt that you will be able to convince him otherwise, nor that you should. His list of targeted schools all offer career counseling and many, many of their graduates have gone on to be healthy, wealthy and wise.</p>

<p>If, on the other hand, your son would prefer that his fellow students are involved in many different academic areas -- as well as art -- then he'd be better off in a "full service" college or university. There are many schools that have good art departments -- both large and medium universities and small liberal arts colleges.</p>

<p>The schools that 2800 mentioned above are a good starting place. I could list several more including some small liberal arts colleges but would like to first know your son's general academic standing and if he has any geographic preference.</p>

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<p>Here is a copy of an older post that I thought you would find useful.</p>

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<p>I am going to make some generalizations,which are always dangerous to do on forums.
Art schools, with some exceptions such as RISD, MICA etc.. tend to be VERY art focused and not liberal arts focused. They do provide liberal arts courses and requirements because some accreditation ( namely NASAD) require them. However, in a number of cases, the liberal arts courses are very watered down. As I said, there are some exceptions especially RISD and MICA.</p>

<p>In a university setting, there usually is no watering down of liberal arts courses since that is their "bread and butter."</p>

<p>It has been said that art students tend to be a very small minority in a university setting. Perhaps this is somewhat true,but it is misleading. School like DAAP ( Design, Art, Architecture and Planning,which is part of the University of Cincinnati) might have more art and design student than found in most stand alone art schools.! DAAP for example has 453 graduate students and 2,037 undergrads for a total of about 2,500 kids. See Report Page, Office of Institutional Research, University of Cincinnati</p>

<p>Universities tend to have a few more liberal arts requirements than found in stand alone art schools,but this does vary from school to school.</p>

<p>Universities do usually have much better facilities such as computers, gyms, pools, tennis courts, eating facilities etc.</p>

<p>You can get a LOT of interdisciplinary work at major universities among departments. For example, it wouldn't be unusual for industrial design students or digital design students to work with the anthropology or criminal science departments doing modeling. This is NOT usually found in stand alone art schools unless they have a very strong relationship with a university.</p>

<p>Generally, stand alone art schools offer more courses in majors and usually offer a lot more majors related to art and design. Again, this can be misleading since some major universities have a lot of offerings. Temple University, for example, just merged with Tyler School of Art several years ago.</p>

<p>Universities tend to have much higher endowments than found in stand alone art schools ,which tend to have very small endowments. Thus, facility maintenance tends to be better at universities. Check out my post regarding Pratt Institute found at the top of the Pratt forum and in the College Visit forum.</p>

<p>Universities, especially big ones, tend to have much stronger school spirit and much better sports teams and more sporting facilities than that found at stand alone art schools. </p>

<p>In terms of rankings , most stand alone art schools tend to stand out among the top ranked programs for art and design. However, this isn't always the case ,and some universities are very highly ranked for some art and design disciplines. Check out Yale, UCLA, University of Cincinnati, CMU, and many others. While RISD and MICA,Calarts, Parsons,Art Center,Pratt institute, tend to be highly ranked art and design schools, not many other art schools tend to stand out as much. I am sure I will get the SCAD folks chiming in here too.</p>

<p>Also, most schools have differing strengths in their programs. For example, some schools have strong programs in Industrial Design and Interior Design,while others don't even offer these programs. Some are very strong in animation and some are not. </p>

<p>LACs tend to have very strong liberal arts offerings. However, they also have a LOT of general education requirements that usually exceed what is required by both art schools and universities. Moreover, LACs tend to have weaker art offerings and fewer choices of art related courses. This is particularly true for courses in design. When LACs do offer art, it is usually in fine art or art history, the quality of which can be quite good depending on the LAC. Again , there are some exceptions among LACs where there are more art offerings including design courses. Examples of these exceptions would be Skidmore and Alfred University.</p>

<p>Bottom line: you really need to check out each school of interest. You also need to check out the school's graduation requirements, facilities, and liberal arts emphasis and liberal arts requirements.</p>

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<p>Holy cow. Well done, Taxguy.</p>

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<p>Hey, taxguy, I wanted to let you know that my son was accepted to DAAP's MArch program. (I'm not sure if you read the architecture board.) It's one of his top choices but he's never been there. Unfortunately he's already made another commitment on the date that DAAP has their preview, so he'll most likely plan an informal visit on his own. If you have any info on DAAP's MArch, please post here on my MArch thread on the architecture board. Thanks.</p>

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<p>I was in the exact same situation as your son a few months ago, and I decided to go the route of University/LAC. Even though I was accepted early at Emily Carr University of Art and Design (Vancouver), I decided that though I want to major in visual art and art history, I'd like to take classes in other areas that an art institute wouldn't offer (ie. French, sociology, biology etc.) If your son is passionate about art, and art alone - I'd go with an art institute. I have tons of friends who go to art schools around the world, and they love it. That being said, if he wants more of a diverse education, and wants to be around a more diverse student body, he should consider a university with a good art department. Yale has an amazing arts program (though personally, I didn't apply because I wasn't interested in the campus), and on the opposite end of the spectrum, the Pratt Institute has a really cool campus and a pretty broad range of course offerings. The last thing I can say is that if he's a junior, he should spend AS MUCH time as possible building his portfolio and doing sketchbook work. I was lucky to have a really productive junior year, which is important because senior year tends to hit people like a ton of bricks, and make them feel less inclined to spend hours sketching etc.</p>

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<p>Momrath, congrats to your son. Sorry, but I know little about the architecture program and even less about the March program. He should definitely visit the school.It is an amazingly, vibrant place.</p>

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<p>Thank you everyone for the wonderful advice. There are so many things to consider when looking for the 'perfect' fit and your information is extremely helpful.</p>

<p>Momrath -- my son's a pretty good student academically but has spent most of his time focusing on his art. As a junior, he currently has a 4.2 weighted GPA - he has spent some time in clubs and community service (the required amount) but not really the "well rounded" university type student. He eats, breaths and sleeps art. That is where he puts his priorities - he does the rest because he knows he has to in order to be successful. After school he is in the studio.</p>

<p>We live in Florida and have considered mostly east coast schools although he liked CalArts and OTIS at NPD too. I'm just not really sure which university/lac's we should visit for him to compare his options.</p>

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<p>While taxguy's response is terrific and very well thought out, it is by his own admission, a general response. You should balance these general truths with your own child. momrath's entry is also very, very true-- you really need to live, breathe art in order to get the most out of a good art school. It sounds this is your son. My own daughter could not be talked out of art school. I really didn't (don't) think it's the best thing, I'd prefer her to be in a liberal arts school while doing art, but she pretty much eats, breathes art (and writing). She has devoted the past three summers to pre-college summer art institutes, in which she worked all day and night, six days a week, in intensive art classes with other art students--and LOVED it. Has your son gone to any of these pre-college programs? That would be one way of helping him find out if he truly thinks an art school (a top one like MICA or RISD, etc.) would be best for him. This was my daughter's sort of trump card--whenever I would say, "I'm not sure an art school would be best for you" she would say how she knew she would love art school because of her three summers in these programs. She went to U Arts in Philly and LOVED it. (But we lived really close to Philly and so it was cheaper). Since you live in Florida, I don't know if there is anything close or affordable, but there are also scholarships available. It's not too late to apply.</p>

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<p>KIMB, For medium sized privates I would suggest WUSTL, Carnegie Mellon, Yale, Brown. For small LACs Williams, Wesleyan, Conn College, Skidmore, Haverford, Hamilton, Kenyon. </p>

<p>The LACs have distinctive personalities and cultures, more so than the larger universities, so one may be a good fit for your son and another may not. They tend to focus on traditional fine arts -- painting, printmaking, drawing, sculpture, photography -- and less on design and new media. All of these schools also have good art history programs and quite a few have access to excellent museums.</p>

<p>Artistic talent and focus is a plus in admissions, especially at small LACs. Because he's applying to art schools your son will already have a portfolio. If he decides to apply to liberal arts programs as well he should definitely submit the optional arts supplement. I recommend a complete arts package which would include the slide (or CD) portfolio; a separate art resume listing classes, awards, achievements, related travel; an additional recommendation from an instructor or mentor; selective (one or two) media articles about him; an essay that reflects (indirectly) what art means to him.</p>

<p>These colleges need artists as well as musicians and football players. Don't worry about being well-rounded. Academics plus art can do the trick.</p>

<p>The joint program between Brown and RISD is very appealing but also new, small and ultra-selective.</p>

<p>My son majored in studio art and art history at Williams. He was very satisfied by the calibre of the program -- the talent and expertise of the faculty, the quality of the studio space, the opportunities and network post-graduation. Williams however is an insular, rural environment and may not be right for a city-mouse. That's what I mean by looking for the right fit, especially in an LAC.</p>

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I posted this in another similar discussion as well as here:

I took a lot of art classes as an undergraduate, taught for 15 years at universities and liberal arts colleges, and have taught at RISD for decades more, so I know more about RISD than other schools. Whether or not art school is a good investment, and whether or not it is essential to a career in art or design, I don’t think there is any comparison between the quality of the art instruction at any of the top art schools and that which is available to undergraduates at any liberal arts school or university either, for that matter – most of the acclaimed art programs at universities are for graduate students. RISD and perhaps a dozen other schools offer stellar studio programs with large numbers of highly qualified specialist faculty, extensive technical resources, and a cohort of brilliant artist/designers to work and learn with in rigorous courses. Each school has its own strengths, but even the weakest major programs at these art schools are stronger than their LAC or university counterparts. There are excellent instructors at some non-art schools, and brilliant students, and some have pretty decent facilities to support one or another kind of art instruction, but I don’t know of any that offer all three, much less all three in a dozen or more art or design departments.

And although it gets a lot of publicity, the Brown-RISD dual degree program is not the only way, or even a very good way, to combine first-rate education in art and design with extensive high-quality liberal arts coursework. RISD, like several other top arts schools, has a very substantial Liberal Arts Division that is comparable in quality (though not in scope) with what one would find at a top liberal arts college. Many of its courses are aimed at students who are looking to apply historical, theoretical, and philosophicall knowledge to art practice. RISD’s Art History, English, and Social Science offerings are extensive, and students can “concentrate” (minor) in several liberal arts or hybrid LA/studio subjects; not long ago a RISD English concentrator received a Ph.D. in English Literature. While it is weak on the harder sciences, math, and foreign languages, the sciences are growing slowly at RISD; further, all RISD students can take as many Brown classes as they can fit into their schedules. One need not give up strong liberal arts to study art and design at the highest level – students whose goals are to combine the two should scrutinize the non-arts offerings and the qualifications of the liberal arts faculty at the art schools that interest them and pick the school that seems most likely to provide appropriate liberal arts and art/design courses.

The Brown-RISD Dual Degree program is designed for students who know in high school that for true fulfillment they need something like a full major in both art/design AND a full major experience in a non-art subject such as international relations or computer science. It could be argued that the five-year BRDD program is not so much “the best of both worlds” as it is “both worlds lite,” providing neither a complete and focused art and design education nor a coherent and thorough university major. The students who have come out of the program are as amazing and smart as when they went in, but I don’t think many of them will ever really combine the skills and knowledge from both programs of study. In contrast, there have been many regular RISD students who have put together careers in which they draw upon the skills and knowledge from their liberal arts courses as much as those acquired in studio classes.

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“RISD and perhaps a dozen other schools offer stellar studio programs with large numbers of highly qualified specialist faculty, extensive technical resources, and a cohort of brilliant artist/designers to work and learn with in rigorous courses. Each school has its own strengths, but even the weakest major programs at these art schools are stronger than their LAC or university counterparts.”

@ARTprof what art schools are included in that dozen? Also, how would you compare Carnegie Mellon’s art and design programs to RISD and the other dedicated art schools?

Edit: Referring to BFA programs, btw.

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Our son chose Temple University. He recognizes that he may not enjoy the film major as much as he thinks, so he’s giving himself other options. He’s also extremely good at math, and that would be his second choice.

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I wish I had applied to more universities. I only applied to two, thinking it was gonna be art school for me.

I’m surprised this hasn’t received a mention yet but universities offer significantly better financial aid. And that was enough reason for me to attend a university art/design program. The difference isn’t a few grand or even a dozen grand. It’s literally the difference between a) six figures in loans and b) graduating close to debt-free. And this is considering that I got generous merit scholarships from all the art schools I applied to.

But I will say that universities sometimes can’t exactly match art schools in terms of equipment and software. For example, CCA’s Adobe software support, and equipment selection available for rental, blows CMU out of the water.

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I have to add my thoughts on the whole art school vs. LAC debate since that was pretty much my daughter’s dilemma throughout her senior year in high school. Here’s what she discovered. Initially, she was focused on art schools and didn’t even think of considering LACs with art departments. We visited a whole bunch of art schools all over the country, from Cal Arts in California to RISD in New England to Ringling in Florida and many more up and down the east coast. I also suggested a few LACs just to compare so we hit RIT, UHart, VCU, Temple, and our NJ state schools. What she first loved about art schools (art 24/7) began to concern her. She wanted to meet lots of different people and learn more about things in life than just her major. She went back for accepted students days to both and that was when she felt it. She wanted a more well-rounded experience and liked the feel of the LAC. That was her best fit. Every student is different. However, the idea that only art schools have “highly qualified” professors and their instruction is superior, seems a little elitist. Every tour we took at both types of schools emphasized their instructors are working professionals in their fields. Ultimately, it’s the student who makes the most of their college experience and not the instructor or facilities. There are graduates from top art schools who have done little with their degrees, just as their are LAC B.F.A graduates who have done extremely well. There is no definite answer to which one is better.