University of Alabama

I will start by conceding that Alabama is not a good fit for many students. Those who want a small school, an urban school, an LAC experience, a particular part of the country, etc. may not find Alabama as appealing as others do. No one school is right for everyone, and unless you have no other affordable options, I don’t think it’s a good idea to choose a school that’s not a fit for the money.

That said, I don’t think doing a run of the mill visit is necessarily the best approach. If you’re a good student with specific goals, it is better to meet with the folks at Alabama who can help you achieve those goals than a random professor who might not be familiar with what you want. If you qualify for the Honors College, I would recommend setting up a visit arranged by the Honors College that will include those things that are of interest to you. If not, area recruiters can set up personalized visits. There are plenty of students at Alabama who do desirable REUs and internships, have undergraduate research experiences, are well mentored, win prestigious national scholarships, are accepted into fine professional schools (I know many students who were accepted into good PhD programs with funding) and otherwise have phenomenal opportunities. It can start even before they arrive on campus by meeting the right people during a visit. I can honestly say that everything my daughter was told or promised during her visit panned out.

@“beth’s mom”

I agree. It’s possible that it’s not common for undergrads to do REUs within that specific field or perhaps Alabama doesn’t have many kids doing REUs. But that doesn’t hold anyone back from doing an REU (maybe culturally it’s not ideal).

Amy9998: Agreed.

Re other posts, I appreciate that there are many passionate supporters of the school. I’ll delve into greater detail here.

First, we did not meet with a random science professor. We flew there and spent time meeting with specific professors who were responsible for the majors/minors she was considering. The visit was coordinated in advance. Second, the science professor was the liaison for the program, so I did expect him to speak to his administrative responsibility and suffice to say he could not. Third, he could not name any schools where his students had been accepted for REU’s because they hadn’t applied - he told us they did “supplemental” REU work. Fourth, when we asked what research opportunities were in his lab he said that if she could carefully wash test tubes, etc, for a semester he would consider her for a higher position. She is a college freshman now, at a top 10 public school, and is already working on research involving lead isotopes and other stuff that is over my head. She’s having REU discussions, and so are her science major roommates, with advisors. Fifth, the discussion she had with the business prof lasted 12 minutes. She asked him the questions she had written and brought with her, and he asked nothing about her interests, why she was there, etc. I think if a student takes time off of school to fly in to meet specifically with you, you might want to ask “So, what brings you here today?” I could go on, it was a two day visit, but I’ll stop here.

I had an open mind about UA, we wouldn’t have visited for a few days had I not. (As an aside, dinner at DePalma’s was delicious.) As I said, I think pre med students facing thousands in grad school debt, for example, would be well off considering free tuition at UA because a class like o-chem is a challenge everywhere and it could make sense for these students to save their money for grad school. Every decision comes with a cost - a free ride might not be so free in the long run depending on a student’s goals. Taking a free ride at UA, or facing $250K for a private LAC, should give every student and parent pause. I agree it “isn’t a good idea to choose a school that’s not a fit for the money.” And, I’m not implying the school isn’t good, I’m saying it isn’t good for my daughter and I hope all parents and prospective students visit, or at least Skype, with UA professors before making a leap because of the low cost. Also, I know that on special visit days for potential scholars at any school there is all kinds of fanfare. She interviewed for top scholarships and there was swag, dinners with special faculty members, fancy videos, etc. I wanted her to have an unvarnished visit, just talking academics. I think students looking at elite scholarships at any school, including UA, should visit, or consult faculty members, on a day when it’s not about being fawned over, when scholarship discussions aren’t clouding any judgement.

@x793n28

I agree with what you’re saying, and that the top 10 public is probably better for research and probably a better choice for your daughter than Alabama. Alabama hasn’t caught up with the elite publics in certain ways.

But you talked to one science program, an undergraduate liaison for the program. There are professors who are older and likely less research active. It’s up to students to apply to REUs. The prestige of your school doesn’t seriously affect admission to most REU programs. The NSF REU program is in fact designed for students in schools with fewer research opportunities to gain research experience for graduate schools. Alabama is a research university.

Washing test tubes is a typical first assignment for undergraduate research students. Professors want to make sure students are disciplined before investing time in training them.

People get into PhD programs from all sorts of schools (how much prestige matters depends on the field though – Econ, Math and Law Schools might care more about prestige) and I’m not sure Alabama is limiting for those aspiring for research-science careers.

Alabama is not yet an elite school (it’s very good though) and it’s not surprising professors don’t expect most students to go into research science. It’s not yet like Harvard, Tufts, U Washington or U Michigan but I think it will get closer as time goes on.

^^ Sounds like you did exactly the type of visit I would recommend, and it turned out not to be the right school for your daughter. Alabama definitely has some professors who are duds, as do most schools. If they’re running your program, it’s best to learn that in advance by visiting. Of course, there are many great profs, too; my daughter did 3 years of meaningful research for two wonderful professors. It sounds like your daughter has found a place where she’s thriving - great for her!

14...wow, yup, @ClarinetDad16 , we are all paid to promote ua...

…that, and the upcoming election is rigged.

@ClarinetDad16

How many kids have:
Top test scores —mine and looking at UA stats – thousands of others
High GPA —yep

And…
Want to go to a public university --yes
Have a poor in state option — not poor but not better – too expensive for same level of education (PA)
Want to go OOS–absolutely
Care about rankings - —rankings are solid - most people don’t need a prestigious name to define self worth
Want a large school – yep – lots of school spirit and many options/opportunities to make a large school more intimate
Want to be in Tuscaloosa --certainly better IMO than State College, PA of Philadelphia
And want to study a major UA offers – hard to find too much that they don’t offer or won’t create for you as part of the honors college

That would be the target for the free ride. Most kids don’t fit that profile. —Profile fits at least a half dozen at my D’s school in suburban PA and by the OOS enrollment numbers seems it fits many kids. (but of course, not all)

My D has not decided if UA is her final choice but it is likely since it has everything that she is looking for and more. There are several places that she has on her list that she will be equally rewarded with $ and they are all fine choices for her – it is in her hands now. I love the UA boosters here on CC - it is well deserved and if D decides to go in a different direction and chooses one of her other schools, I will still tell everyone I know about UA.

And as several pointed out the offer does not cover room and board.

So the target list shrinks to exclude:

  • any kid whose family would pay less at a school that meets full need
  • any top stats kid who wins a better merit scholarship
  • any student earning a full tuition scholarship from a better fit school
  • any student whose is admitted to a top tier school and they can easily afford the incremental cost

How many students receive the Presidential Scholarship each year?

instate

OOS

@clarinetdad16 - even though UA is the state flagship, high stat in-state students do select other in-state and OOS schools that are a ‘match’ for them.

http://oira.ua.edu/d/webreports/enrollment2/Fall_2016/front

lots of stats here.

http://oira.ua.edu/factbook/reports/other-student-related-info/honors-college-first-time-undergraduates-by-state/ honors college students distribution.

Maybe you can find something more specific.

There is a table with the # of NMS by year for example. I do not see where # of presidential scholarships are enumerated nor distinguished by state like some other student information.

@ClarinetDad16

I can definitely see where you’re coming from.

No one is saying the school is made for everyone, but the price is, especially in engineering.

The amount of students who could…is pretty small
a. Get into a meet full needs school
b. Have a family income that would qualify for full tuition

People aren’t paid to advertise Alabama; parents are so excited about not having to go into debt to fund their children with a decent education.

Even me personally. I’m inbetween UT Austin engineering and Alabama. Sure the rankings aren’t as good and my family is very well off with the ability to pay for higher ranked schools, but the offer at Alabama is so good. Along with the STEM MBA program and honors college, Alabama is my number one school.

@Jpgranier Besides the great scholarship offered by UA, why would you pick UA engineering (#103) over UT (#11)?

We are in between with some good engineering school choices and trying to decide what is/is not important.

@cheetahgirl121 my decision is not final but here’s my reasoning.

  1. Admission into the honors college (UT honors admission would change things)
  2. STEM MBA (I have a deep interest in business as well
  3. The ability to switch majors (UT is EXTREMELY difficult to switch majors between the school of engineering. I'm on the fence between electrical and mechanical)
  4. Rankings don't exactly matter. My understanding is for engineering, going to a better school can open up doors for internships and jobs, but at the end of the day they all get paid the same (My mother was the leader of the largest Hispanic organization which gave her and I connections to many internships. Many of the folks I've meet at great companies have promised me internships)
  5. I know you said not to mention cost, but I have my reasons. My dad is capeable of paying UT Austin or more expensive, but we have struck a deal. He is going to break up 30-50% of the difference in tuition and costs between the two schools and pay me monthly while in school. This will allow me to not have to work.

@cheetah786 my other choices are A&M (may save maybe 10k off price of UT), GaTech (if accepted, will be 90k more than UT), Rice (if accepted will be 110k more than UT), and SMU.

This decision is definitely difficult for me. I go back and forth daily whether or not rankings really mean something. As of today I feel they do not. Tomorrow I may feel differently.

<<<
Third, he could not name any schools where his students had been accepted for REU’s because they hadn’t applied - he told us they did “supplemental” REU work.
<<

I would love to know who that prof was. His claim that none of his students had applied to REU’s is simply not believable unless he’s very new to UA. And what the heck is “supplemental REU work”. Sounds like he may have misheard and didn’t hear the acronym REU. Or maybe he thought the question was regarding applying to the REUs that Bama hosts??? Students are NOT usually encouraged to apply to the REUs at their own campuses.

That said, there have been profs who’ve been asked to meet with visiting students who really aren’t “up” to doing so. Sometimes the intended prof can’t do it, and a replacement is given the duty.

@ClarinetDad16

It really comes across like you are actually angry at Alabama for offering extremely generous scholarships for high-stats students.


[QUOTE=""]
How many kids have: Top test scores High GPA << LIMITED FUNDS -- it seems strange that this extremely important factor didn't make your list.

That would be the target for the free ride. Most kids don’t fit that profile. <<

[/QUOTE]

and for the many kids who do fit that profile, it can make all the difference.


[QUOTE=""]
And as several pointed out the offer does not cover room and board. <<

[/QUOTE]

it sounds like you are you criticizing them for “only” offering an automatic full-tuition scholarship rather than full-ride.

Penn State’s in-state tuition is almost $18,000 per year – and that doesn’t include room and board either.
so a PA kid with 32 ACT can choose to pay these 4-year tuition costs:
PSU – $72,000
Alabama – $0

if money is no object PSU is a great choice and a better school. but if money is an issue, a generous and affordable option from a solid state flagship is a godsend for many families.

so it sounds like you don’t like UA. we get it. but for many families, it is clearly better to have an affordable option like Bama available, rather than NOT have it.

As a graduate business student at TAMU, I do understand the difference in how the college experience can differ at larger campuses (especially the first couple of years of UG) - and there are some distinctions as student posters on this thread have revealed.

As a graduate business student, I had personal connections with the professors. An UG at a smaller school may have a bit more of that. One has to weigh out that consideration.

DD as a junior engineering student at UA says pretty much all her engineering classes, she either knows the students or knows their faces. She had her department head for her introductory engineering class first semester freshman, probably because he wanted to get to know his students - however he has now moved up to Ass’t or Assoc Dean. Things are dynamic.

Some high stat students may not have had to have many study skills in HS, and making the transition to a large campus along with making the adjustments to all the freedoms, social adjustments, life adjustments - not having mom/dad taking care of things - there are students capable of the college work that don’t make the personal adjustments with the academic demands. UA does offer a good amount of academic support if the students will seek it out.

As with anything, one has to be smart about knowing themselves and knowing what is expected to be successful.

A glaring one for me is industrial engineering. Lack of the major is what led to my other son turning down UA.

I can give you my son’s experience. He turned down Georgia Tech, Johns Hopkins, and other top schools. He ended up being flown all over the country to interview for engineering leadership development programs at top companies, alongside students from those very schools. He got 5 job offers from elite companies in his field, basically the same as if he had gone to any top school. He’s now a Boeing engineer. An excellent engineering student, who takes advantage of opportunities, will succeed from UA just like he or she would from the top schools.

Eng’g rankings don’t mean much.


[QUOTE=""]
glaring one for me is industrial engineering. Lack of the major is what led to my other son turning down UA.

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And I still don’t understand why Bama removed that discipline!

[quote]
@ClarinetDad16

It really comes across like you are actually angry at Alabama for offering extremely generous scholarships for high-stats students.

[quote]

I don’t know if its anger, but @ClarinetDad16 sure seems to put a lot of time & energy in denigrating Bama when he gets the chance.