Hey CC! Hoping for some advice on choosing between two great option, and would like to hear your thoughts/advice.
At Duke I’d double major in stat & econ, maybe with a minor in philosophy or history. At Cambridge, I’ve been accepted to read economics at Trinity College. I’m not sure if I want to go into academia or finance. Either way, I want to go to grad school (PhD or MBA) in Cambridge, MA and end up working in the USA (I’m a US citizen), but if I follow the finance route I’d consider working in London or Singapore for a few years before returning to the US for my MBA.
Trinity College, Cambridge:
Pros:
Time/Cost (About $100k cheaper than Cambridge, because it’s 1 year shorter + cheaper per annum)
Supervision system offers unparalleled intimate teaching
College system offers a tight social life
International exposure would be good for personal growth
Cons:
Potential culture shock
Excessively predetermined course load: I still want to learn more from other subjects
Short terms means less time for extracurricular activities/bonding with friends
Grading being based purely on final exams
Duke University:
Pros:
Flexible academics; meaning I can take CS/math courses (Necessary for jobs/PhD preparation) or random courses (Just for fun)
Probably has a better alumni network in the USA specifically
Similar to above point: May be better for finance recruiting into NYC offices
Wider array of support for programs outside of school: Study abroad, summer community service, undergrad research, etc
Cons:
Cost (See above)
Not a big fan of the social scene (Drinking culture/Greek life/athletics)
I’d be especially interested to hear from current Duke students on the social life there, and from anyone in the finance industry on how recruiting/job outcomes would compare from the two schools.
Two outstanding options ! Nevertheless, consider Cambridge because it saves a year of tuition & you plan on getting an MBA, and because you do not like the Duke social scene.
FWIW: The Times Higher Education Global Ranking for 2019:
Oxford
Cambridge
Stanford
MIT
Caltech
Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Imperial College of London
Chicago
Duke.
Since you plan to work for a few years before getting your MBA, Cambridge gives you access to both European & US employers.
P.S. Plus a degree from Cambridge should make you an interesting candidate for admission at the top MBA programs.
I went to Cambridge a very long time ago (Queens’) It’s an amazing place and nothing like a US university. I can only contribute peripheral snippets. Trinity is a phenomenal and historic college. When I was there there was a bit of anti American feeling, don’t know if that is still the case. And there was no career help; again things might have changed. There will be no alumni network to speak of in the US. And, unless you have work papers (not easy to get) you will have to come back to the US to work.
On the other hand, it is an experience like no other, and one that few Americans get to experience. I went there for graduate school, and like that path better than the reverse (undergrad in the UK, graduate school in the US).
Duke would provide better recruiting preparation and an alumni base that would be willing to help out more. And I have a feeling that you will fall in love with Blue Devils basketball if you go there even if you don’t care at all for it now.
The course and major flexibility is also quite key, IMO.
Cambridge would provide an intensely intellectual atmosphere and better reputation outside the US (both Duke and Cambridge respected in the US, obviously).
And there is the money component.
If money was not a factor, I personally would choose Duke because I wouldn’t have been certain I wanted to solely study econ at 18. At Duke, you could go a completely different path (say, major in CS and go work in Silicon Valley). Not possible at Cambridge. IMO, that should be your biggest consideration (assuming you are certain you want your long-term career to be in the US instead of non-US) unless that extra $100K would be a major financial strain (in which case, you should be considering your full-ride/no-tuition options as well).
BTW, they drink a lot in the UK, even at the very intellectual places.
Another factor is that an elite university in the UK is just nothing like the US. There is much less interest in diversity, whether it is racial or economic. The UK is a much more closed and stratified society. As an American you are outside that, which is great. On the other hand the networks the British students already have (social, public school) are closed to an American. There is more than a whiff of Brideshead Revisited-- the colleges still have black tie May Balls each year. It is an amazing experience, but unless the OP has ties to the UK (for example can work after graduation, has relatives living there) I would think long and hard about it. I am a huge anglophile, and have lived there for 4 years, well after Cambridge, but the UK and university education is a good 20 years behind the US. (Don’t crucify me, remember I love Britain!). And I loved Cambridge. But I wouldn’t advise my own child to go there as an undergraduate, over an excellent US school.
That said, OP you have given us very few details and there may be very good reasons for you to choose Cambridge.
@cinnamon1212 , I was at Cambridge much more recently than you and I think a lot of that intense class-focus has dissipated. It’s still there, as it is all over the UK, but they are making significant efforts to reduce it, including a big push for state school intake. (By the way many people now rent rather than buy May Ball outfits - you still get the looks without needing the investment, etc.)
There are far more Americans at graduate level than undergrad, but being a bit of a novelty is no bad thing.
The only downside to Cambridge for me would be the more focused undergrad, if OP wants a more diverse education. If the ultimate goal is grad school back in the US, it is a perfectly fine background.
The economics course at Cambridge is very mathematical and an excellent preparation for a PhD. I wouldn’t worry about anything being lacking there. It’s more academically intense than anything in the US, I’m not sure why anyone would consider the educational system to be behind the US (let alone 20 years behind).
You don’t have general ed courses which can be fun to some and a distraction to others. I don’t think there’s a lack of time for extra-curricular activities (I found time to play 5 sports amongst other things), everything is very intense, but you work hard and get through it. And the advantage of grades being based on end of year exams is that you can catch up during the Christmas and Easter breaks. Instead of having finals like in the US, the last week of term is more focused on parties and dinners (and bumps if you want to try rowing). I guess Americans might feel black tie dinners are elitist, but it’s more about formality than anything else (at least you don’t wear black tie for exams, unlike in Oxford).
I agree there is not much of an alumni network (more in SE Asia than the US, after all the Singaporean PM went to Trinity), but the level of credibility that a Cambridge degree brings is significant (and most people in the UK at least will be somewhat in awe of Trinity in particular). Arguably more so than Duke, especially in academic and finance circles. I find it carries plenty of weight in the US. The $100K difference will go a long way towards helping pay for an MBA.
Hey all! Thanks for all the advice; it’s given me a lot of insight and I really appreciate your time. Some more details, if they might be important:
The $100k difference isn’t overwhelming for me (s/o to my parents). Another thing I forgot to mention: I’m Chinese-American, so I’m not sure if that would play negatively into my experience at Cambridge at all.
I’m absolutely certain (That might be a bit of a folly to say right now, but I’m as certain as I can be) that I want to study economics, although I’m uncertain as to what I want to do with my economics degree (academia, consulting, finance, etc).
There are noticeably more undergraduates from the Far East (SE Asia, HK, China) than from the US at Cambridge, reflecting Commonwealth links and the more similar school systems (A levels). So I don’t think it would be a negative (and could provide another social grouping for you to become involved with if desired), compared perhaps to some other ethnicities that are acknowledged to be underrepresented there. Having said that the percentages are more like Harvard levels than Berkeley levels (though race is not taken into account in admissions in any way, this simply reflects the pool of applicants and the fact that the UK is not as ethnically diverse as the US). The stats are published on the website.
It’s good to be certain about your subject, in fact Cambridge likely wouldn’t have admitted you if they had perceived any uncertainty on your part.
Don’t underestimate what else you could do with $100K. For example if you decided to do a masters or PhD in the UK then it probably wouldn’t be fully funded (one reason to do that is because it’s much quicker, only 3 years for a PhD, if you don’t want to be in academia long term, that’s partly because you aren’t doing so much TAing).
If you are absolutely certain about studying econ and love it, that tips the scale heavily in favor of Cambridge. You’ll go deeper into the subject than you likely would in the US. Reading econ at Cambridge would essentially be equal to a major and masters in econ from a top school in the US in terms of how deep you’ll go (and in fact, after a few years, your Cambridge BA would be upgraded to a MA).
Being Chinese-American would not be a negative at all.
Adding in a practical point: if you want to taste-test finance as a path, all of the big name firms recruit heavily from Oxbridge for (paid) internships in London. As a full time student, you are eligible for those internships with the same firms you would be looking at in NY. The experience- and the contacts!- will open all the doors you want, if you decide that is your path.
As others have noted, the terms are incredibly intense- you will genuinely work harder than you ever thought possible, yet amazingly enough there is plenty of socializing of every sort. Also, the breaks are long
Imo, the biggest reason not to go to Cambridge is if, looking at the course schedule, reading the module descriptions, you aren’t thinking to yourself ‘that looks interesting / cool / fun / etc/’.
@Twoin18 by 20 years behind, I was not referring to the academics. More, all the other “soft” aspects of college. When I attended there was a complete lack of interest in diversity, at a time when US schools were focusing on that. My college had one black person in it. (And Britain is more diverse than you give it credit for!)
Things like fundraising-- they didn’t even ask for money from alumni, ever, until a few years after I graduated. Now, we can all do without that aspect of college life, but a lot can be done with alumni donations, and it’s a way for the university to stay connected with graduates.
My US educational institutions stay in touch with me via email, a monthly magazine and social media. Cambridge, not so much. There is a magazine, every quarter? And I get an email and college magazine once a year.
All these things aren’t important in and of themselves, but reflect a lack of connection to alumni and to the business side of education. So, as far as I can tell there is no career help, or nothing like a US university would have. This is more true the farther away you get from graduation.
Finally, again, the OP has to know they can legally work in the UK for him to take advantage of paid summer internships in London. Otherwise he will be left to network on his own in the US to find summer jobs in America , where, yes, the Cambridge connection will be known and respected.
If the OP is considering a career in academia then Cambridge is an excellent choice.
actually, a student visa will enable OP to work in the summer vacations, so that’s not a problem, but he/she would need to find their own housing for that.
And one thing to note is that from a US perspective the accommodation at Cambridge is amazingly good: you get a single room, with a bed, desk, sink, coffee table and armchairs or sofa, and in some cases a private shower (so relatively few people feel the need to work in the library except for social reasons). Most single rooms are bigger than a double or triple room at a US university (typically at least 180-250sq ft, but third and fourth years can even get “sets” with a sitting room and separate bedroom). US students will find it odd to have a “bedder” who comes in each weekday morning to make your bed, vacuum, empty the bins and change your sheets every week (though they are usually quite good about not disturbing you if you have someone else in there and you leave the bin outside the door ;)).
The best advice is that if you can afford it, always take the most expensive room option, the difference in price is far less than the difference in quality/size/location. They give priority in the second (and fourth) year to scholars (those who get a first, nowadays that’s nearly half of the class).
You want to go to grad school in the US. Go to Duke and study abroad in Cambridge for a semester or two. Better still, experience Cambridge on a Churchill/Marshall scholarship if you have the ability to win one of those.
The UK is a whole different world and I’m very down on British schools at the moment. British universities are probably going to lose a lot of European funding post-Brexit. Political polarization in the UK is at an all time high (even more extreme than the US IMO). I just don’t see Europe as being a credible alternative to the US/Asia in the long term. There is a massive rightward lurch in policy across the entire continent and I personally could not see myself living there in the years to come. Just one person’s opinion.
As far as international rankings are concerned, take them with a MASSIVE pinch of salt. Most of the global rankings come out of Europe and Asia and they occasionally come up with ridiculous results (example: Dartmouth and Brown ranked hundreds of spots lower than the University of Minnesota)
OP, I am a recent-ish Duke graduate who wasn’t into Greek life, drinking, partying or athletics (I came to enjoy Duke basketball). It was relatively easy for me to find a niche on campus. Look at Selective Living Groups. You will find a lot of people who share your interests. Also, I am not an expert on British schools but the drinking scene in the UK is likely to be even more extreme…
