University of Chicago or Northwestern?

<p>This is for a "friend" The numbers are Parent and Student Contribution is 6-8K at Chicago while the P and S contribution is 10-12K at NU. Personally, I am all about Chicago, but there is concern Chicago is a draconian place that is all work and no play. Also, the major is Comparative Literature or English. I know about all the rankings and such so what I am looking for is quality of life issues. Also, the safety issue is not significant so no worries there, we know about big city life and Hyde Park doesn't bother us. </p>

<p>Any thoughtful responses are appreciated and please no "where the fun goes to die" responses or NU is a bunch of preppy brats responses. Please be real.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>I have some words for your friend.</p>

<p>Go to this group and see for yourself.
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<p>you have no idea how much this has helped people choose. It has discussions from Chicago vs. Northwestern and all that, and really shows how much fun goes on in chicago.</p>

<p>My son is entering his third quarter of his first year at Chicago. It’s been quite an interesting year. There have been tears, and many sleepless nights…the school can be a hard place. So much is expected from such young minds.</p>

<p>But here’s the thing, the expectation has nothing to do with rank competitiveness. Grades are never discussed. The atmosphere is never cut throat. In my son’s case he worked hard because the professors treated him as an intellectual peer and he pushed himself to BECOME that peer. </p>

<p>So yes…there is ‘work’. But at least in son’s case, it was never ‘work’. Hard yes. Blithering, sleepless, I have to push through hundred pages more tonight work? Yes. But, the work is never pointless or dull. There’s all sorts of boosters thrown the students way to ensure that a mind is being built and not a wonk. My son’s various profs, each one of them, have been amazingly generous of their time, and not just at office hours. He’s had a longstanding coffee date with his language prof, his math TA in the 1st quarter met with him on a Sunday during a ‘I can’t do math!’ meltdown, he’s been friended on facebook, and looked after when he became very ill.(They made sure he got through his quarter)</p>

<p>In fact, everywhere you turn there’s a housemate, TA, RA, RH, prof, grad student, willing to help, discuss, argue and enlighten. The place IS hard as heck, but never, never, never is draconian. And for a parent, the totally independent, mature and self assured being that comes home on break is amazing.(And for the low, low price of 50 thousand, Chicago seems to throw in a delicious sense of humor for free)</p>

<p>As for ‘where fun goes to die’, it does not. It often goes there for a bit of Heathcliff/Catherine type romance, but no one dies.(A safe word is definitely needed however :slight_smile: ) Seriously, my son is having the time of his life. Does he complain? Yes.(The hallmark of Chicago students is that they complain… alot) He’ll complain that he’s had a boring, dull weekend. You’ll remind him gently that he’s pregamed in friend’s room, went out for sushi, came back for not so secret hilarious fighting match amongst two housemates, pregamed some more, frat party and then hung out in room with friends till 3 am. You’ll remind him that he’s been in the city twice this past week. He’ll grumble and then want to get going because everyone is going…somewhere.</p>

<p>Chicago is all about making these kids have a life. From the house system (where everything from meals to community service is available to do as a group) to closing the dining hall on Saturday night so kids get out and explore the city…every effort is made to ensure these students are not living an all work life.</p>

<p>Partying at Chicago is nothing like partying at big state U or I would imagine Northwestern. Alcohol isn’t verbotten at Chicago, so it’s not a big deal, nor is the mindset one of ‘kids rebeling against the organization/man/RA/whatever’, it’s there as a social lubricant…and often leads to interesting things that isn’t all ‘I puked up my socks and don’t remember a thing’. </p>

<p>One thing, and this is my observation only and based solely on one house. Chicago has a ton of hipsters…maybe in equal number to ‘nerds’.</p>

<p>For majors like that I’d definitely go to Chicago.</p>

<p>Wow, I really enjoyed reading your post, Hekau, and I don’t think I can follow it up that well. </p>

<p>Your son sounds to me what I hope is the “typical” Chicago experience: you arrive, we beat you around a bit, you start filling out transfer applications to schools that show students sipping margaritas on the beach in their promotional material, and before you finish completing them you realize that you’re in the best place in the world.</p>

<p>I also would follow up that students here do love to complain. Somehow this concept that we might be harder than other schools gets to our heads a little bit, and while we have our “If I wanted an A, I would have gone to Harvard” t-shirts and the like, but I like to look at syllabi posted online from other schools. (Yes, when I’m not procrasting on CC and talking about school, I’m procrastinating by reading about it). I’ve seen syllabi posted from schools like Barnard, Williams, and Bryn Mawr, and at least from what I’ve seen, some of their courses look every bit as nasty and grueling-- sometimes more nasty and grueling-- than a course I’ve taken at Chicago.</p>

<p>Students also complain that there’s nothing to do in Hyde Park, despite bookstores, bars, mom-and-pop places, and a few amazing and cheap restaurants.</p>

<p>Another few things:</p>

<p>–You can find a bazillion and one things to study here, and bazillion and one people interested in studying exactly what you are studying. I’m an English major who was toying with Comp Lit, and I only have the best things to say about the classes I’ve had so far.</p>

<p>– How hard you end up working is often a function of how much you want to prepare for class. I’m a slacker on the Chicago end of things, meaning I get a good night of sleep and I’ll put aside my work to go watch TV, talk to friends, see a movie, go to a club presentation or do something else. While my life is very balanced between work and play (and “balanced” in the way that a Northwestern person would call NU “balanced”), I’m also not getting A’s. That is not a “sacrifice” to me, as my grades aren’t important to me. But it might be to somebody who is so used to getting straight A’s to start being satisfied with a B+.</p>

<p>– I’ve found making friends really easy here. Chicago kids can be kind of like the kids in “The Breakfast Club” – a lot of us are very different from each other, but we all respect academics (even if we don’t end up working as much as we probably should), and we all disliked the social hierarchy of high school. I wish you knew me, so I could point out how funny it is to me that a good portion of my friends are in sororities and were cheerleaders and prom queens in high school.</p>

<p>– I understand how somebody visiting the school sees us as hipsters and nerds, but of course, like anything, these titles are only useful in describing somebody’s physical appearance. I don’t think of my housemates in these categories, and I would not define myself as either a hipster or a nerd. I don’t spend enough time or energy on clothing to be a hipster, and I spend too much time and energy on clothing to be a nerd.</p>

<p>And, most importantly:</p>

<p>– This is a decision the friend’s daughter should make herself. The fact that you like Chicago and that everybody thus far also points towards it does not help her make the best decision for herself.</p>

<p>A little bit more on the complaining aspect: and this is just my theory, while I do believe most schools at a certain level carry an expected toughness, Chicago may seem tougher because the students are expected to discuss the original work…really analyze it, and not simply point to what Aristotle said in line 40. It’s not just about the reading but HOW you’ve done the reading that might just make Chicago a tad bit harder than most. My son has only purchased one real textbook this year.(Math) Everything else has been original texts.(A big help by the way for the wallet:) ) So when you’re reading Locke or Hume, you have to be prepared to understand deeply… before you can defend or disagree with old Hume or Locke. Those same nurturing profs will think nothing of being unmerciful if you simply try to read back the words of the author. It’s not enough to know about the subject, you have to think about it.(My son has a theory that certain prep school kids are very disadvantaged because of this, these kids have to work to shake off the ‘Aristotle says in line 40’ mentality)</p>

<p>This seems to extend beyond Hum and Soc, on my son’s art history quiz last quarter the TA grading it wanted my son to go beyond dynasty, material used, schools, social and religious influence,to making inferences on why a certain wood might have helped the artist convey an aspect of the buddha. In other words, the TA/prof was expecting the student to move beyond the lectures and really think and observe in a careful manner. I was totally blown away at the level that was required and more than a bit in awe that he rose to the level.</p>

<p>This isn’t to say Chicago is actually harder…it’s really to warn that Chicago is perhaps more intense.(Think of it as a warning to dive into that crystal blue rock quarry at your own risk, sure you ‘could’ break your neck or drown, but more than likely you’re going to have a soul transfixing experience)</p>

<p>And Unalove, you’re right about the ‘hipsters’ and ‘nerds’ labels. I think I was just musing about Chicago’s parties and my son’s experiences.(That he tells me about:) )</p>

<p>The original post is written in a fashion that leads to only one answer–the University of Chicago. The student should have no trouble whatsoever deciding between the two. The real issue is whether the accepted student can handle the demanding workload & social environment of the University of Chicago. The secondary issue that I see is whether this student belongs at Chicago or at a less imposing liberal arts college (LAC).</p>

<p>Thanks for everyone’s insights. I notice more Chicago oriented folks posted. Anyone have any thoughts on Northwestern?</p>

<p>I know a lot about Northwestern University, but your posts simply do not share enough info. to enable one to craft an appropriate response.</p>

<p>Hmm ok, well the Chicagoans seem to be able to not have any difficulty with the post, perhaps that speaks for itself haha. </p>

<p>“know about all the rankings and such so what I am looking for is quality of life issues.”</p>

<p>But I will be more specific, What are courses like in English or Lit at NU, What is the “Crowd” like? How diverse of a campus is it? What has been your or your child’s experience like at NU? etc.</p>

<p>@ UCLA, Ph.D.</p>

<p>Let your friend visit the campus and decide which place is better for them. Northwestern is in the wealthy, relatively safe northern suburbs only a train-ride away from the Loop. Chicago is in Hyde Park (city neighborhood) surrounded by the southside of Chicago (ghetto). I knew my heart was set out for Northwestern (I’m a graduate) and it had everything academically and extracurriculars-wise for me. NU is also on the quarter system and more laidback.</p>

<p>“The place where fun goes to die” is from a Second City comedy routine by a couple of UChicago grads. It was meant to be a comedy piece. It’s not serious.</p>

<p>I had a D who applied to Harvard on a whim and got in. My only regret? She was headed to NWern up to that point. We’d done a 3-day campus visit to NWern, she and I. We did it all - plays, music, sports, classes, student center, library, local restaurants - it was magical - very, very special. I love visiting her in Cambridge, but I miss not getting back to Evanston.</p>

<p>Five gold stars and a white pony for gadad! I find myself trying to explain the humor more times than I care to.</p>

<p>The only thing I can say about Northwestern is that it’s beautiful, absolutely beautiful, and it totally struck me when I visited a while ago. It would not be the school I would choose for myself, but I feel comfortable in suggesting it to others. That’s why I think it’s absolutely imperative for the student to visit the schools. She’ll probably know within three minutes on campus which one is the one.</p>