University of Michigan vs NYU

@toowonderful all great, industry respected schools. I left out a bunch

I looked up the article. Good read on many levels. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323401904578157100460419438

I agree that it was an interesting read, but again the focus is on musical theater. If that is not your goal, then the article may be less relevant

Respectfully disagree. Just reread the article again. Qualities mentioned in the article bridge MT and Acting. In fact I find a lot of the article focusing on the Acting training first and foremost. The showcase they are referring to with short vignettes and monologues is, IMO, a reference to an Acting showcase. “A lot of times we don’t even hear them sing in the showcase,” said Ms. Gardner of the CMU grads. “Then you audition them, and they’re able to sing as a lead in a musical.” And the paragraph prior to that quote focuses on Acting training. Relevant to many in the industry today…there is a ton of talent out there and many ways “to skin a cat”….An enormous number of Actors out there, many mentioned in the article who are amazing vocalists and dancers. Many who began in Acting conservatories.

Everything you say is true @puma69 - I guess I was just seeing more of “17 out of the 20 musical on bway have CMU and mich grads” (no mention of plays) the 8 titles of musicals mentioned in the article (no plays) and anecdotes about vocal auditions. You are absolutely correct that there are lots and lots of kids studying acting who are also involved in MT (my kid is one) but there are also plenty of kids who are exclusively focused on straight acting. Some of them (that I have known) resent the “hype” of musicals (in the HS and youth theater world they are the vast majority of shows) and I guess I was thinking from that point of view. Sorry

I infer the WSJ article as being more about feeder schools to Broadway musicals and CMU and U of Michigan are certainly two renown MT programs. I think that there are many students who study in acting programs who are also singers. For example, this is true of a number of kids I know who were in acting studios at Tisch who were also great singers. And I think this is very true at CMU in their acting track too. I think, however, CMU and UMichigan are a bit different in this regard. At CMU, there is ONE audition for their program and if you sing at that audition, you are considered for MT, but you can still be placed in the Acting program and so a number of people in the Acting program have auditioned as MTers (not all, but some). My own kid auditioned for MT at CMU and was Priority Waitlisted for Acting and had she been offered a spot and had chosen to attend, she’d be a singer in the Acting track. At Michigan, the two programs are separate with separate auditions/admissions. Certainly there could still be a singer in the Acting program there, but I imagine that many who audition for the Acting program there are trying to go to an Acting program and not a MT program, unlike the auditions at CMU or even Tisch whereby someone might audition for MT but be placed in Acting. (of course MANY students apply to CMU or NYU for ONLY Acting in the first place) My niece who was in the Acting program at Michigan doesn’t sing or dance at all. I’m sure some do. Darren Criss is an example of someone who is an alum of the Acting program at Michigan who is a singer. Still, I believe the article and even generally speaking, people tend to talk about CMU and Michigan in the same breath with Broadway more for MT. Michigan offers a great Acting program, though I haven’t heard it referred to as one of the tippy top ones in the same manner as I have heard CMU thought of in terms of their Acting program. I think CMU’s Acting program is harder to get into than Michigan’s, but CMU and Michigan are both in the same ballpark when it comes to MT admissions.

I appreciate so many people sharing their thoughts. My son toured NYU yesterday and liked it a lot. He is concerned that he has heard it is hard to make friends as the kids are very competitive. He felt like it was a supportive, family environment at Michigan. Can anyone in Adler comment on the social environment. My sense is that he really likes Michigan but is afraid he is insane to turn down Tisch, which tops any list you can find for acting. I’m not finding Michigan on those lists (except for MT). I have also heard people say the acting program at Michigan has been the stepchild to MT but they are working to change that as they are focusing more on the acting program. Has anyone gotten the stepchild feeling at Michigan? We are really quite confused on which way to go.

As mentioned- my D is Adler, and she has had a great year “friend wise” in studio. One of the things I love about schools that don’t allow you to audition freshman year is that you have a period where you AREN’T in competition with fellow BFAs. Really helps the bonding. They tend to travel in packs (which makes me feel good in NYC) and spend a lot of time exploring the city (esp as weather has started to get nice) and just hanging out. What 's more - I know my D really likes that her NYU friends are peers, theater isn’t an extracurricular for them (which she got a lot in HS - even in a PA school seemed like there were a lot of kids who had come to be divas, and a lot of kids who had come to “get out of” normal classes) NYU kids are there to create and to work. Of course I imagine there are some she likes more/less than others - but again in the larger program there is a larger peer group. And more choices. Yesterday she spent day with 3 adlers (2 of which will be her roommates next year) a Meisner, 2 MTs and a film student - shooting a series of hysterical video snips all around the city in places made famous in movies. Had so much fun goofing around, but it clicked so well the film kid wants to expand and turn into part of his final exam project for one of his classes.

Two visits, two positive experiences. Yes, it makes your choice tougher, but you can’t go wrong either way. I can vouch for the supportive, family environment* at Michigan. I would add two adjectives: professional, and competitive. Maybe a couple of other Michigan parents can chime in with their impressions @compadv and @lojosmo .

*Just one example: when my son was cast in Three Sisters, the department head invited the cast and creative team to their home for a cookout.

RE: the stepchild of MT theory: I never heard this from my son. The departments have separate faculty and curriculum but there is cross-over. They use the same facilities and performing venues. My son viewed it as a positive to have this top talent & top program close by - he took a couple of courses from Brent Wagner. He invited MT kids to perform in the plays he wrote for the student-run theatre Basement Arts. (Incidentally, two of these performers made their Broadway debuts in the last month (Les Mis & The King and I.) So - your decision may come down to intangibles: NYC v. Ann Arbor. Broadway Show v. The Big House. Of course I am biased, but will say this: The New York experience will always be there; the Ann Arbor experience only comes around once.

Best of Luck!

I totally agree you can’t go wrong. Have your son follow HIS heart and all will be well. Last year D had acceptances to a couple of really strong programs. We visited, discussed with “people in the industry” (primarily the staff at her PA school- but they are professional artists as well :slight_smile: ) family etc. When we came to the table to make a final decision each of us (me, husband, kid) had a different “top” choice. I wanted the small (less than 20 per class) program I thought would nurture and take care of her every step of the way, husband wanted the least expensive, the kid wanted NYU. I was FULL of doubts and questions (and so many CCers were ready to help- special thanks @halflokum - still my NYU guru) but she knew what she wanted, made HER choice- and has loved every minute. I hope your son finds his choice soon- and I hope he loves it

A tough decision and two very different schools. My son is a freshman and absolutely loves the program at Michigan. It is like a family…the professors are supportive and encouraging. He is getting excellent training from top notch professionals. There are so many opportunities to explore different areas of performance. He doesn’t feel at all like a stepchild to MT and has gotten to know the MT majors very well…he got permission to take one of their classes. It really depends on what your son wants. There are so many performance opportunities at Michigan…you are only limited by your own availability. There is a great student run program. As an aside, one of his classmates turned down CMU to go to UM and also loves it there. My son likes to explore everything - acting, singing, dance , improv, movement…so it’s a perfect fit for him. Your son may be different and a more structured program like NYU may be a better fit. I have a friend whose done graduated from Tisch last year and loved it. I agree that he should follow his gut. Message me if you want me to put him in touch with my son… Good luck to him with his decision.

I agree with others that your son can’t go wrong with either program or university. Both are well regarded and he likes both. It really comes down to his individual choice and gut feelings. Also, the settings are quite different. He will find kids who attend both who each love their programs!

I don’t know where you son “heard” it was hard to make friends at Tisch or that the students are competitive. Did he hear that from actual Tischies or outsiders? Anecdotally speaking, my kid went to Tisch and never ever mentioned any sense of a competitive atmosphere. It was easy to make friends! They spend three full days per week in their studio which is a small subset of Tisch. Those kids bond very quickly. I think in freshmen year, they were my D’s main friends, but she eventually branched out beyond her own studio of peers. But one’s studio does have that “family” atmosphere within a larger university. The larger university, not as much so.

While there are anecdotes of being invited to professors’ houses at a place like Michigan, this happens at a place like NYU too. I know my D has spent time at a professor’s apartment working on things with her. Also, for two years, her cast was invited to quite a nice dinner party at the NYU President’s beach house. So, I don’t think this sort of thing is the difference between the schools.

It really comes down to your own son’s comparison and which school felt like his place.

Thanks for the shout out @toowonderful and for drawing my attention this thread. I did reach out privately to @kobitheeviee to give her my two cents. The middle part of that PM I’ll deposit here in case it has relevance for anyone else in future. @Bazaarshopper and others above have done a great job already in addressing the questions. Maybe my PM has just one more dimension as it pertains to location and its impact on “look and feel” so I’ll share it.

Anyway, as the parent of an almost senior at Tisch… I think this is a very nice problem to have and I would have happily sent either of my kids (including the non-theatre one) to U Mich in a heartbeat. In fact, both applied and one owns a sweatshirt that I admit sometimes I wear over my PJs as it didn’t ultimately make it to the college bound suitcase even though it made the school list twice and could have been in one of the suitcases had that been the way the wind decided to blow :slight_smile:

I have several “hand me down” sweatshirts like that now - collected on the way. The Muhlenberg one is the softest and most comfortable. I hope the kid doesn’t think she gets those back when she comes home this summer

Great post, halflokum! You brought up something I forgot about…being in NYC. This is totally about one’s personal preference. Being in NYC is not a must by any means! But I must admit, it is an added benefit that my kid liked about NYU. For someone passionate about theater, there is an abundance of it in NYC and so she has gotten to see a TON of theater in her years in the city. There is also the budding of a network in the city before one graduates. Again, these are not a necessity and it is a matter of what a student wants! But it is a big difference between Ann Arbor and Manhattan. By the same token, one might really prefer the college town and the school spirit stuff so prevalent at UMich!

Good points @halflokum - “People don’t go to U Mich for Ann Arbor (though it is really nice), they go for the school and all that comes with it in terms of excellence in education, etc…” At Michigan we are eternally grateful for one student’s choice - he left NYC back in 1934 & enrolled at U of M. Wanted to take advantage of the Hopwood Writing Awards. (An award he prized more than his Pulitzer). Worked out pretty good! He won! Twice!

Today’s students perform in the theatre that bears his name. So, thanks NY! (Michigan eventually sent him back to the big city where he did some writing & stuff).

@bazaarshopper - great and you are welcome. Gosh if only the daffodils I remember looking at in the U Mich brochure in 2011 when kid 1 applied would actually be in bloom when the students are there. :wink: My admiration for the school and Ann Arbor are sincere. Absolutely loved it. The OP in my mind cannot miss and just needs to decide what matters in the end. Totally nice problem to have. NYC isn’t all that sucky either if that’s what floats the boat. All the best!

Thanks for all the help. He searched his gut and has chosen Michigan. That family environment won in the end. But I was wondering if anyone is able to share the Wall Street Journal article that is mentioned in earlier threads “How to get to Broadway”. It only shows the first paragraph if you aren’t a subscriber. Thanks again for the great input!

Congrats- and I hope he loves Michigan. If you google search the name of the article “How to get to Broadway WSJ” you should be able to read whole thing - that’s how I did it.

Got the article, thanks. Bedded to use the google instead of yahoo for some reason.