University of Oklahoma Fraternity suspended

President of the university just spoke. They are looking into any legal action that can be taken against the “student leaders.” Title VI or the Code of student conduct were both mentioned as avenues that their legal team are exploring.

Hunt, it’s not me drawing the line. The university can choose to officially recognize whichever groups it wants. Liberty University has every right to refuse official recognition to an LGBT group, but should not censor its students’ discussion of LGBT issues.

I do not equate official recognition with the right to free speech. Our state has a state-funded TV station which reports on state activities. The fact that it is supported by the state doesn’t require it to provide a podium for anyone who demands one.

Question: was it a private setting? If it was on a fraternity-hired bus, en route to a fraternity event, does that count as private or does it come under the “university-sponsored” heading?

My answer is that it doesn’t matter. The state cannot take away a “privilege” in order to deny a person’s rights.

Although they will probably find a way to do so.

@Zekesima: I’d be wary of assuming all Southerners are racist idiots based on one collection of frat boys unless we assume that also of all Southwesterners based off another collection of idiot frat boys (specifically, TKE at Arizona State): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/24/arizona-state-frat-party-mlk-racist_n_4656322.html.

petrichor - I was always taught that a lady or gentleman treats everybody, regardless of status, as ladies and gentlemen.

Question for you, Hunt: If you saw a video filmed secretly depicting a group of kids from your neighborhood singing about how Hunt’s S or D should be hung from a tree, would you consider that free speech and shrug it off? I’m guessing that the answer is no–you’d probably notify the police instead. (Sorry for the horrifying imagery here, but I’m trying to prove a point–what those kids were singing feels like “Zekesima’s S should be hung from the nearest tree”, it feels like a direct threat that should garner police notification.)

@ Petrichor11 Fair enough. As a mom to an AA kid, this sort of problem is just one more thing to have to take into consideration in the search for a college for my son.

Um…okay. Not sure where we’re going with that ^^ ? Or rather, the antecedent?

As a member of both an OU greek organization and student government, we take the free speech claims seriously, and thus changed the language of a relevant resolution to suggest that the university take appropriate action to prevent such incidents from happening again. OU greek organizations are officially prohibited from discriminating on race, so it is well within the university’s right to kick them off campus. I’m not sure what we would do if we ever received a complaint about the Catholic or Mormon clubs on campus with respect to sexism. We’d likely ignore it, unless it were shown they were actively prohibiting prospective members from joining for non behavioral reasons.

As a side note, I’ve begun contacting relevant departments and in a few days, heads of the various Greek councils, to try to establish a general diversity program similar to the University of Oklahoma’s [Greek Ally](http://www.ou.edu/studentlife/diverse_communities/lgbtq/greek-ally.html).

For parents or students wondering if this is systematic to Southern fraternities and sororities, I cannot say with absolute certainty. I doubt it is, and it is certainly not at my chapter. When we discuss possible new members, race never comes up beyond using it to simply describe the physical attributes of the candidate.

“Hunt’s S or D should be hung from a tree”

Naming a specific individual moves the scenario more into the realm of a plausible threat.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2015/02/04/religious-chants-at-uc-davis-debate-raise-concerns-after-jewish-fraternity-house-vandalized/

Just a month ago, Jewish students were shouted down in a campus lecture hall by Muslim students chanting “Allahu Akbar” at UC Davis. It was on campus and not private. It was an obvious effort to intimidate those who were speaking out against divestment from Israel. No national outrage. No Today Show. No repurcussions to the shouters.

I joined a co-ed fraternity in college. Not all chapters admitted women. The national organization changed its by-laws, leaving all pledging decisions up to the chapters after the chapter at Yale pledged its first African-American member in the late 1960s. A group of alumni brothers from southern chapters actually chartered a plane, in order to crash and stack the meeting and exercise voting privileges at the Yale chapter. This was such a massive embarrassment to the national fraternity that it banned any such actions in the future. Brothers would always be welcome to visit, but could no longer vote at another chapter. Some chapters have remained all-male, and one is still notorious for its hostility toward sisters from other chapters. They have been reprimanded by the national chapter for misogynistic behavior at parties. All universities, including public ones, issue charters for student organizations. Oklahoma is obviously scrutinizing its agreements with Greek societies to see what punitive measures it may and may not take.

So, it sounds like the songleader(s) might be in hot water. I wonder if they’ll do something to you if you were just singing along. And, how would they know? What if your lips were just moving for show?

SAE might well stand for Same As Ever. That fraternity can’t seem to stay out of trouble.

But it is getting tiresome to discuss what should be done with those cancers. It never gets anywhere: lip service or a decision to form some kind of “commission” that will simply issue more lip service a la Dartmouth. The might name each commission the Captain Renault Commission.

With mere slaps on the wrist, the fraternities know that there will be business as usual with every new crop of freshmen.

@TatinG Yes, but were the Muslims shouting death threats or advocating violence as was the case on the SAE bus?

Apparently they also have the nickname “Sexual Assault Expected”

At OU they now have the nickname “Sooners Against Equality”

From President David Boren’s campus wide email:

In today’s world, if Allahu Akbar is being shouted or chanted at Jewish students, it sounds like a threat even a terrorist threat to those being attacked. It’s not as though the words were being said quietly in prayer. Allahu Akbar has become what is shouted before a bomb goes off or before a shooting takes place, ie. Ottawa and Fort Hood.

Hmmm…interesting. The “state” can’t, but a private organization can? It looks like the National office has already yanked the local’s privileges.

What would the right in question be? To sing a song of your choosing on a private bus, however foolish or obnoxious?