University of St. Andrews in Scotland

Student Lounge International Students
241

<p>To “Chancers” Alexa95, Fibonacci1123 and Moore1425:</p>

<p>I’m a parent of a current American St. Andrews student, not an admissions counselor, so I won’t chance you. </p>

<p>But let me share some food for thought that might be helpful…</p>

<p>Commonly held wisdom is that St. Andrews is more numbers-focused (high SAT and GPA) and less extra-curricula and essay driven. The school notes that they look for a rigorous curriculum with a GPA of 3.5 or higher. SATs of around 2000 or above should put you in the ballpark.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.standrews.ac.uk/admissions/ug/int/northamericanapplicants/Directapplications/[/url]”>http://www.standrews.ac.uk/admissions/ug/int/northamericanapplicants/Directapplications/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>On the essay, advice my daughter received was that they like to see some indication of the seriousness of your academic intentions. There is less interest in the “we want to get to know you as a person” approach sometimes favored by U.S. admissions departments.</p>

<p>While extra-curriculars may be less important than in the U.S. in the admissions process, I would not leave them out of the application. Their admissions officers are looking for outstanding American applicants, and I would expect that they know that top Americans are strong outside the classroom. So why would you leave this out?</p>

<p>Admissions is rolling, so it might be safer to assume that as spaces fill up it’s going to get harder to get in. Applying early couldn’t hurt.</p>

<p>Tuition is lower than a high-priced top private university in the U.S. That’s the good news. But if you think you will qualify for aid in the U.S. system, St. Andrews may not be the right choice. Financial aid is non-existent and scholarships are rare. </p>

<p>You all look like fine candidates, BTW.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

242

<p>Thanks for the advice!</p>

<p>If you don’t mind me asking, what were your child’s qualifications? (ACT, SAT, APs, GPA, etc.) and what are they majoring in?</p>

243

<p>Hi, I am new here and I’m from Quebec Canada. I want to go to St.Andrews University, and I contacted the university for the fees And this is not 50000$ a year, It’s like 33 600$ for an undergraduate in economy, and a share room anyway, can I get feedback about this university, if it’s a good one, and if people had no difficulty to find a job after leaving. Also, is that good to do one year undergraduate, or I am better to do the full-time 4 years? thank you!!</p>

244

<p>hello, im a prospective st.andrews applicant from the u.s. and i wanted to know if anyone could tell me:</p>

<p>1) how can going to st andrews help with job prospect post graduation?
2) is a degree from there seen as equivalent to one from HYP in the u.s.?</p>

245

<p>^

  1. It can’t.</p>

<p>2) No, it isn’t.</p>

246

<p>A more informed reply to autumn123 than gloworm’s obvious bias:</p>

<p>1) It can, St Andrews is very prestigious, currently easily in the top 6 in the UK. In fact using the admittedly crude method of averaging together the 4 main UK rankings gives St Andrews the average position of 4th in the UK ahead of UCL and behind ICL.</p>

<p>2) Not quite, probably more equivalent to Dartmouth, Brown or Chicago.</p>

247

<p>Simon, I am not sure one can compare St Andrews to Brown and Dartmouth and it certainly cannot be compared to Chicago. If I were to compare it to an American university, it would be Emory or Vanderbilt. 10 years ago, St Andrews would not have cracked the top 10. Nothing has changed really…except that the future King of England is now an alum. Of course the fact that he is very well liked and that his wife (also an alum) is by far the most beautiful and sexy royal in living memory certainly does not hurt. Remove William and Kate from the equation and St Andrews does not crack the top 10 in the UK.</p>

<p>I have a feeling that in 100 years, one of the most important universities in the World is going to be the College of William and Katherine! ;)</p>

248

<p>Alexandre - All that Will and Kate have done is to boost awareness of the University and attract a better standard of applicant which in turns attracts a high level and so on. This is the way any top University boosts its reputation. Well, going purely by rankings (as unreliable as they are), looking at Imperial and UCL’s positions on world tables and looking at where they are in relation to St Andrews in domestic tables shows it can quite easily be compared with those three Universities (this cuts out the bias against small Universities world rankings have, where St Andrews in fact appears only 3 places away from Dartmouth in one). Where a University was 10 years ago has no bearing on how good it is now. St Andrews is just as selective as the other top UK Universities outside of Oxbridge. Average UK standings are currently:</p>

<ol>
<li>Oxford</li>
<li>Cambridge</li>
<li>Imperial College</li>
<li>St Andrews</li>
<li>LSE</li>
<li>UCL</li>
</ol>

<p>So St Andrews in fact appears two places above an institution one ranking claims is 4th in the world.</p>

249

<p>Hey, </p>

<p>I’m a first year psychology major here at St Andrews (just finishing up my first year) from the US. So a few things about St. Andrews from my perspective…</p>

<p>Academics are fairly rigorous. I would put the workload around the level of places like University of Michigan (Ann Arbor), UCLA, Wesleyan. This is just a rough estimate though as i haven’t attended any of those colleges and am just comparing my schedule to friends who go to those places. Also the school system here is very different from the US school system. The grading scale is on the 1-20 scale as opposed to the 4.0 scale, which might take some getting used to. <a href=“http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/media/Grade%20Conversion%20United%20States.pdf[/url]”>http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/media/Grade%20Conversion%20United%20States.pdf&lt;/a&gt; And here there are not as many assessed assignments as you would find in a typical US university or college. We don’t generally have hw which you turn in every few days but rather maybe a few labs, tests, or essays that are each worth 10-30% of your overall grade. Most of the weight is on your final exams. I take 3 classes (120 credits per semester/standard first year workload) psychology, biology, and economics and for psychology and economics the final exam is worth 75% of my overall grade. 50% for biology. In addition to the exams i have 3 labs, an essay and a test for the other 50% in biology. Two labs and a test for the last 25% in psychology and one test for the last 25% in economics. My friends in US colleges seems to have a lot more tests, essays, and daily hw but everything is weighted a lot less. Rarely is anything, even their finals, weighted as much as 50% of their overall grade. Semesters here are shorter than US colleges as well with only about 11 weeks of lecture followed by revision week and exams (breaks not included). I wouldn’t say this place is like a liberal arts college as progression into second year and onwards i would have some flexibility with changing my major but i have to do something in one of the 3 classes i took this year. I can’t change my major into say computer science at this point although i may take it next year for credit towards my psych, bio or economics degree. I think this was mentioned before by someone else but mostly self study and yes, kinda sink or swim, especially with your finals being so important. But you can reach professors for help if you email early enough but you really do have to reach out to them yourselves. It’s not like high school where if you’re doing poorly they’ll contact you about it to try to help you raise your grades. With all that said i personally am probably going to transfer out. This is a personal decision and should by no means discourage any prospective students from coming here. I’m looking to transfer out because i don’t really have a good idea of what i want to do so it would be best not to be tied down to 3 options for a major and a liberal arts college would probably be better in that respect. Also i come from Los Angeles and even though this place was nice for a year i don’t think i would want to spend 3 more in a small town like this…a city-like environment is more for me. Oh and as far as applications go…I sent mine in mid-late may and it was fine. On my essay i wrote more about the personal reasons why i wanted to come over here to study like to experience the different environment and culture. I didn’t talk at all about my academic intentions, but that’s just me. GPA was a 3.7 unweighted and 2200 SAT (800 math, 750 writing, 650 RC).</p>

<p>Hope this helps…</p>

250

<p>

WHAT???! Where did you get this information? Quite rarely in the UK that someone will rank StA in the top 6, let alone top 4, despite one league table ranked it top 4 last year. The general consensus in the UK is that St.A is outside of the top 6. Well within the top 10, however.</p>

<p>Cambridge, Oxford
-gap-
LSE, Imperial
-gap-
Warwick, UCL
-gap-
Durham, St.A, Bristol, Edinburgh
Bath, Nottingham, York, Manchester, King’s, Exeter</p>

251

<p>RML - I got that information by averaging together the latest Independent, Times, Guardian and Sunday Times tables, which have St Andrews at 6, 4, 4 and 7 respectively. I would say that by now St Andrews has easily outstripped Warwick aswell as Durham, Bristol and Edinburgh. In fact I have literally just checked again and St Andrews has moved up a place to 3rd in the Guardian table. So St Andrews has finished in the top 6 in 15 of the 18 tables published for the last 5 years, and in the top 4 in 6 of those. I would suggest you get up to date with your facts before making these assumptions.</p>

252

<p>^ Oh, come on! Those latest rankings are crap and you know that. </p>

<p>Let’s keep it real. The only reason why St Andrews outperformed Imperial, LSE, Warwick and UCL in the latest surveys is because of the revised methodology. In the last 2 years, these league tables included STUDENT SATISFACTION as one of the MAIN criteria, in which StAs performs strongly. But as you can see, that does not say about academics or academic standards. </p>

<p>I wonder who would choose StAs over Imperial College for engineering/natural or physical science, or StA over LSE for economics/social sciences, for example…</p>

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<p>RML - That’s for the last 5 years across ALL domestic tables. The fact is if you check St Andrews is the one University to be most consistantly in and around the top 5 for that period of time apart from Oxbridge. Tou can’t ignore the evidence in favour of your own seemingly biased viewpoint which certainly doesn’t represent “the general consensus in the UK”.</p>

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<p>Simone21 & RML,</p>

<p>Clearly RML has some animus toward StA’s as a cursory review of this thread more than amply evidences.</p>

<p>Perhaps best to let him (or her!) gibber away as he (or she) simply rejects the abundant and broad based data that confirm St A’s in CERTAINLY in the top ten and - often - in the top few universities of the UK. </p>

<p>Incidentally and though impossible to cast in American terms, it is a mix of Princeton (3rd oldest in its country, smaller, and more ‘clubbish’) and Amherst (a superb but small, elite liberal arts college the likes of which neither the UK nor Europe can hope to comprehend).</p>

<p>Sometimes eyes wish not to see and the ears wish not to hear. </p>

<p>Ah well, the best to you RML …</p>

<p>TTFN,
Kay</p>

255

<p>The satisfaction rating weighs 25% of the total criteria of those surveys you cited. I’ll show you how StA was able to manipulate the ranking and has successfully outranked several supposedly better universities.</p>

<p>Satisfied Overall:
93 - StA
gap
89 - Warwick
87 - UCl
85 - Imperial
gap
80 - LSE</p>

<p>Satisfied with Teaching
95 - St A
gap
88 - Warwick
87 - UCL
84 - Imperial
81 - LSE</p>

<p>Satisfied with Feedback
68 - St A
gap
63 - LSE
62 - UCL
61 - Warwick
gap
51 - Imperial</p>

<p>[University</a> guide 2012: University league table | Education | guardian.co.uk](<a href=“http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/table/2011/may/17/university-league-table-2012]University”>University guide 2012: University league table | Education | theguardian.com)</p>

<p>**Remove the Satisfaction Rating and St A will be out of the top 7. **</p>

<p>Here’s how the top employers view the UK unis: <a href=“http://www.highfliers.co.uk/download/GMReport11.pdf[/url]”>http://www.highfliers.co.uk/download/GMReport11.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Universities Targeted by the Largest Number of Top Employers in 2010-2011</p>

<ol>
<li>Cambridge</li>
<li>Warwick</li>
<li>Manchester</li>
<li>London</li>
<li>Oxford</li>
<li>Nottingham</li>
<li>Bristol</li>
<li>Bath</li>
<li>Durham</li>
<li>Leeds</li>
<li>Edinburgh</li>
<li>Birmingham</li>
<li>Loughborough</li>
<li>Sheffield</li>
<li>Southampton</li>
<li>Cardiff</li>
<li>Aston</li>
<li>Strathclyde</li>
<li>Newcastle</li>
<li>Exeter</li>
</ol>

<p>St A isn’t even in the top 20. Here’s the script fro the report:</p>

<p>Neither St Andrews or Lancaster – which are ranked fourth and tenth
respectively in The Times Good University Guide 2011 – appear within the top twenty
universities most-targeted by the UK’s leading employers.</p>

<p>The five universities most-often targeted by Britain’s top graduate employers in
2010-2011 are Cambridge, Warwick, Manchester, London (including Imperial
College, University College and the London School of Economics) and Oxford.</p>

<p>Again, without the SATISFACTION RATING, St A would not break the top 7, let alone top 6 in the UK. Imperial College, LSE, UCL and Warwick are obviously superior to St Andrews.</p>

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<p>Katayanna, don’t get me wrong. I like St A because of its rich history, amazing location, great facilities and superb teaching standards. In fact, I almost went there for my undergrad had I not been offered an admission from Cambridge. But seriously, there obviously are at least 6 universities that are superior to it. St A is a top 10 Uk uni. But to say it is a top 3 UK uni is just a stretch. Imperial, LSE, UCL and Warwick are superior to St A. Even the top employers would acknowledge that.</p>

257

<p>@Simon12
RMLs tier is pretty correct in that this is usually the accepted tier for UK universities in the UK based on perception. I am pretty aware that the perception for you is 1) Oxbridge (yeah I know they are two), 2) LSE and then 3) St Andrews and that people would use “league tables” to assert this point.</p>

<p>I bet a lot of British people would think you are bonkers if you suggest that St Andrews is remotely even close to Imperial, Warwick and UCL or even Durham. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Spot on except Bristol and Edinburgh are a bit better than St A from information I gathered. I would state here that I am no authority. Based on what I gathered from friends that school in the UK. </p>

<p>Oxbridge
LSE & Imperial
UCL & Warwick
Durham/Bristol, Edinburgh, St A
King’s, Nottingham, Manchester and York</p>

<p>

An interesting conclusion though, for you Alexandre because Vandy and Emory have a stronger research profile, get better recruitment (IB, MC firms, go into good law schools and have a better corporate presence in the US relative to what St Andrews has in the UK).</p>

<p>Not saying its wrong but wondering why?</p>

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<p>^ Mostly agreed, except that you missed Bath in your list. ;)</p>

<p>St A has gained popularity world-wide especially to those from high society because of Prince William and Kate. However, I have doubts if that sudden balloon of popularity brought about by media exposure would last a long time. </p>

<p>based on observation, employers (along with top caliber professors) often dictate school prestige, and St A isn’t popular to the sight of the employers, and only somewhat popular to the view of top academicians.</p>

259

<p>Katayanna - I would have used Brown as my US comparison, for one thing they are almost identical in size.</p>

<p>sefago - I would struggle to find anyone who thinks Warwick is better than St Andrews for anything other than a career in investment banking. And I would rank them as:</p>

<p>Oxbridge
LSE, IC, UCL & St Andrews
Warwick, Durham and Edinburgh
Bristol, Manchester, York, Bath etc.</p>

<p>RML - Clearly your ideas have been set to when you started as an Undergraduate. It is during the last 5 years that St Andrews reputation has significantly increased, only partly because of the NSS. As is shown by St Andrews placing highly in every single guide, regardless of how much student satisfaction is rated.</p>

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