University of St. Andrews in Scotland

Student Lounge International Students
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<p>RML just giving advise. Wellesley is really better than a lot of schools for recruitment. I think the mistake you are going by is general recognition (You know more about st andrews) Its considered very very prestigious. Because you dont much about a school does not mean its not good. If you do some research, you would find more people in top firms from Wellesley (in the US) than St Andrews (in the UK). And St Andrews is bigger. </p>

<p>Of course they are all the smae if you plan to go home to your country. St Andrews and Wellesley have no name recognition. UCLA on the otherhand, as a result of being a research power house . . .</p>

<p>As for the H1B cap its really 65,000. However, there is an immigration cap in the UK. So my facts are right for now :)</p>

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<p>RML & sefago,</p>

<p>I apologize if this comes across didactic, but I am a parent that is what I do. Saying with any sort of certainty which is better Wellesley, UCLA or St. Andrews is like saying which is definitively best a world class bowl of strawberries, a world class bowl of oranges or a world class bowl of apples. It is different for each person which is best.</p>

<p>Wellesley is a small all woman school in the suburbs of one of the most historic cities in the U.S.</p>

<p>UCLA is a large coed school in a really cool area of Southern California</p>

<p>St. Andrews is a moderate sized coed school in a beautiful and historic town in Scotland.</p>

<p>All have impeccable reputations </p>

<p>It is hard for me to imagine one can really say one is “better “ than another or provides more opportunities. The fact is if you are fortunate enough to graduate from any of the aforementioned schools…you’ve won!</p>

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<p>Hello!</p>

<p>I recently received an offer of admission to study International Relations and Russian!:slight_smile: However, my parents are finding it hard to imagine me leaving Texas for Scotland. I tried to explain to them how great a program St. Andrews has for IR, but I don’t think they fully understand. Any ideas?</p>

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<p>Hello,
A few weeks ago I received my offer to study Neuroscience at St Andrews and I’m extremely excited. Everything about St A is the perfect fit for me but I have one question. Will it be difficult for me to gain entry to an American Med school with a degree in neuroscience from St Andrews? I don’t mind having to do an extra year in the US or anything like that.</p>

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<p>^ You will likely have to do an extra year maybe in a postbaccalaureate program. I know about two people doing this one from Imperial and another for KCL in my pre-med classes doing post-bac. You might also be at a bit of a disadvantage at first because you might not have the opportunity to volunteer in a hospital or do research. But if you are not looking at getting at the tippy top med school tier, you might not have to worry about this.</p>

<p>but if thats what you want why not :)</p>

<p>Likely you might decide later not to be a doctor. Think about that. Putting a post-bac option in the future would be a good idea.</p>

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<p>My daughter is attending a US high school (she is an American citizen) but has a dutch passport. If she attends St. Andrews will she pay the fees that American students pay or will she be able to the fees that E.U. students pay?
Thanks</p>

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<p>I was recently offered admission to Saint Andrews for a BSc Honors in Biology starting in the 2011 academic year. For all of those potential applicants that doubt themselves, know that you can do it! It only took a week by normal postal service for my app to reach the University and I got a decision 5 days later. </p>

<p>Public School-900 students, Rural Central Washington (State)
SAT: 2080 Comp; 630 M, 680 R, 770 W
ACT 29
3.92 GPA
Various AP tests.</p>

<p>I’m very excited and think I will be accepting the admission offer quite soon. Hopefully I’ll see some of you next year!</p>

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<p>Hey everyone… I just got accepted to St Andrews and am planning on going next fall. My brother is a Junior and absolutely loves it. I got accepted into the department of Social Anthropology.</p>

169

<p>Thank you for your informative perspective. </p>

<p>I am a senior in High School in the USA - the Midwest, actually. I was offered an unconditional acceptance at St. Andrews in either English or International Relations (sadly, there being no joint degree). </p>

<p>My mother is an academic surgeon trained in the US (Yale, then Harvard Medical School) who also did advanced research in the UK (Warneford Hospital at Oxford). She is encouraging that I seriously consider matriculation at St. Andrews for a number of reasons. </p>

<p>Perhaps the most compelling is its special historical legacy that had it develop into the most unique university in the British Isles. It is truly ancient. It is on the Scottish coast lands. Yet it is the special configuration of a size - a liberal arts university that is a true COMMUNITY and with the breadth of study more akin to North America than England. </p>

<p>All these dyadic comparisons make little sense. St. Andrews is (in American terms) rather like Princeton … not the full cachet of Harvard or Yale but superb in its own right as the third university sibling with as strong focus on undergraduate education (and Presbyterian, too!).</p>

<p>In all, it is much like but far more ancient than the Ivy League and - in true Scottish ilk - far more economical! Though I am not certain that I will matriculate, it has great appeal. In the end, I expect I will be in Fife next fall.</p>

<p>As for bona fides … SAT 2240, ACT 33, APs = 5 in Comp, Brit Lit & American History; 4 in European History, 4 in Biology + four current AP classes. Varsity athlete in Volleyball from sophomore year, Cheerleader, Class VP, NHS, on the State Champion Debate team last year, plus a LOT of volunteer time. </p>

<p>I also have full tuition merit scholarship offers from KU (Kansas) and am hopeful of a few Ivy League applications but have to wait until spring to learn about those. If I get into Yale (or Harvard), I probably will go … but still St. Andrews has so much to offer by way of international experience and quality education. </p>

<p>Happily, money is not an issue but still St. Andrews is a remarkable bargain and I am thrilled to have an acceptance from such an ancient and unique university already in hand.</p>

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<p>Your perceptions seem a bit nugatory …</p>

<p>As I stated on an earlier string, I am a senior in High School in the USA - the Midwest, actually. I was offered an unconditional acceptance at St. Andrews in either English or International Relations (sadly, there being no joint degree). </p>

<p>My mother is an academic surgeon trained in the US (Yale, then Harvard Medical School) who also did advanced research in the UK (Warneford Hospital at Oxford). She is encouraging that I seriously consider matriculation at St. Andrews for a number of reasons. </p>

<p>Perhaps the most compelling is its special historical legacy that had it develop into the most unique university in the British Isles. It is truly ancient. It is on the Scottish coast lands. Yet it is the special configuration of a size - a liberal arts university that is a true COMMUNITY and with the breadth of study more akin to North America than England. </p>

<p>All these dyadic comparisons make little sense. St. Andrews is (in American terms) rather like Princeton … not the full cachet of Harvard or Yale but superb in its own right as the third university sibling with as strong focus on undergraduate education (and Presbyterian, too!).</p>

<p>In all, it is much like but far more ancient than the Ivy League and - in true Scottish ilk - far more economical! Though I am not certain that I will matriculate, it has great appeal. In the end, I expect I will be in Fife next fall.</p>

<p>All of you who are so preoccupied with league tables very much miss the point, especially with a university so particular as is St. Andrews. An ancient, ivied, intimate, liberal arts community in a quite special setting - and (for international matriculants) so cheap as to be a bargain. What is not to like?</p>

171

<p>“Going to an international school is not a good idea if you want to be premed. The VAST majority (if not all) of medical schools in the U.S. require that you attend a U.S. accredited undergraduate institution. Some explain that you can do a year of course work in the U.S. and then apply to medical school. But, simply attending St. Andrews would not suffice even if you completed the premed core. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me.”</p>

<p>This is, per my mother an academic doctor trained at top-rate institutions in both the USA and the UK, is totally incorrect advice. To enter a USA medical school one must simply have the basic courses from any accredited college or university in the USA or the world AND have solid MCAT scores. That is it. </p>

<p>One could … study English, Biology, Politics or whatever in America, the UK, Europe, Asia or South American and with all premed courses complete plus sound MCAT scores … gain direct admission to nearly any north American medical school.</p>

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<p>^ seems your mum either does not exist or she has never worked in an admission committee in medical school. Medical school is more than just premed classes and MCAT. Top medical schools in North America are research institutions and they have research requirements that the even the top Oxbridge candidate would be unable to meet.</p>

<p>Moreover, it would be difficult if not impossible to complete the core in schools that have strict requirements. For example There was a girl in my orgo class who studied biology at Imperial and she had to take post-bac classes because she never took orgo or physics</p>

<p>I do agree with the previous post that you need about a year of courses. </p>

<p>[Applying</a> | College of Physicians and Surgeons](<a href=“http://ps.columbia.edu/education/apply]Applying”>http://ps.columbia.edu/education/apply)</p>

<p>“It is rare for individuals who have received premedical education at schools outside of the United States and Canada to be offered admission to P&S. This is primarily because the Committee on Admissions has no satisfactory means of evaluating the caliber of premedical education available at many other colleges and universities throughout the world. For such applicants we require that at least one year of premedical training be taken at an institution in the United States. The MCAT also must be taken.”</p>

<p>“I am a foreign student. Will that affect my chances of getting in to HMS?
Foreign students who have studied for at least one year at an accredited institution in the United States or Canada, and have completed the requirements, are eligible to apply at HMS. International applicants should make every effort to take the majority of required courses at an accredited college or university in the United States or Canada. Foreign students who do not have a baccalaureate or advanced degree from an institution in the U.S. or Canada are rarely offered admission.”</p>

<p>[Harvard</a> Medical School: Admissions FAQs](<a href=“http://hms.harvard.edu/admissions/default.asp?page=admissions#section%206]Harvard”>http://hms.harvard.edu/admissions/default.asp?page=admissions#section%206)</p>

<p>Your mums alma mater</p>

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</p>

<p>I’d hardly call St Andrews the most unique university in Britain, in truth there seems to be little to differentiate it from Edinburgh, Glasgow or even Aberdeen except its location and size. It’s old, sure, but everything is old in Britain. St Andrews most certainly is not a liberal arts university. What gave you that idea?</p>

174

<p>I recently received an unconditional offer for international relations and am seriously considering it. Anyone know much about the IR program apart from the strong reputation? I browsed the courses in IR on their website and they definitely looked really interesting; I guess I just don’t have enough information about the IR program apart from that.</p>

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<p>Ever heard about Cambridge and Oxford? :wink:
It sounds like a St. Andrews commercial… Anyway, I really don’t think that going to UK universities other than Oxbridge bears any advantages over US schools. Nobody knows them, and they lack of alumni in the States is a serious disadvantage…</p>

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<p>sefago:</p>

<p>Ha ha! Actually not only is my mother quite extant she also has been on a number of medical school admissions committees in the USA. She said that the quotes you reference apply to non-US citizen applicants and that - for a US citizen - having a good first degree from the UK would not be an issue. </p>

<p>She also pointed me to the following source for clarification.</p>

<p><a href=“https://www.aamc.org/download/54488/data/admissionshandbook.pdf[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/download/54488/data/admissionshandbook.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF MEDICAL COLLEGES - Handbook for Admissions Officers</p>

<p>G. School Policies

  1. International students</p>

<p>Each school should have a published policy relating to the admission of international students. An international applicant is a student who is not a U.S. citizen or a permanent resident of the United States and who is seeking (or has achieved) Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) permission to study in this country. They can apply from abroad or be in the United States completing undergraduate (and/or graduate) studies, having entered the country with a student visa (F status). … …</p>

<p>Most private medical schools in the United States consider for admission, and accept, (non-US citizen) international applicants. The best available reference in terms of the policy at each allopathic medical school can be found in the Premedical Advisor’s Reference Manual. … …</p>

<p>The main problem faced by (non-US citizen) international students is that the school accepting them has to certify to the INS not only that they are fluent in English and meet the requirements for admission to the M.D. program, but also that they have the financial means to support themselves for the duration of the program. </p>

<p>Furthermore, few medical schools require substantial research experience although that can be helpful, especially at such places as HMS, Columbia, etc. </p>

<p>As I said initially, have all pre-med courses in good order and doing well on MCATs are the main hurdles for a US citizen no matter where he or she studied.</p>

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<p>What gave me the idea that St. Andrews is either a most unique institution in the UK or a liberal arts university? Golly, let me think on that …</p>

<p>Could it be strengths in literature, languages, philosophy, history, mathematics, and science amid a curriculum that fosters broad intellectual capabilities rather than one emphasizing specialization in a discipline, a profession, or a vocation? Or might it have something to do with the Scottish approach that likewise offers breadth across a range of subjects as distinct from the English, Welsh, and Northern Irish greater depth but in a narrower range? </p>

<p>Undergraduate education in the “liberal arts” in America differs from in other countries, including most of the UK. These differences include (1) small size, (2) a residential collegiate campus community, (3) an emphasis on quality of teaching, and (4) the opportunity to explore a range of subjects before finalizing a major area of study. The finest liberal arts institutions also are (by American standards) old, somewhat ‘swish’, and appeal to applicants from a wide range of backgrounds.</p>

<p>Meanwhile we can agree Glasgow, Edinburgh, and Aberdeen are fine universities. However, the University of Edinburgh is more than three times larger than St. Andrews and, though in a lovely city, it is also dispersed without a true campus. Ditto Glasgow. Aberdeen comes a bit closer to the St. Andrews configuration but is still much larger and without a unified campus. </p>

<p>St. Andrews is among the oldest and by far the smallest of the ancient UK universities. It is in a historic, picturesque seaside town. It has only 8,000 students, nearly all undergraduates in the liberal arts (e.g., Literature, Philosophy, History, and Science). It has a rare mix of matriculants with close to equal parts Scots, Brits, Yanks, Euros, and Asians. It has the UK’s highest ratings of student satisfaction and quality of teaching. Nice, too, that fees are one third of what a private institutions in the US might cost.</p>

<p>You think it fanciful that I regard St. Andrews as quite unique among UK universities and a liberal arts institution to boot. Well my, my.</p>

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<p>Before I say anything I think it’s important to make the distinction between the Scottish system and the liberal arts. You apply to Scottish universities, including St Andrews, having already chosen your course of study. Yes, you’re given the opportunity to study other subjects in the first couple of years - but this does not mean you are guaranteed an opportunity to change your chosen course like in the US. There is far less freedom when choosing between subjects, and no subject requirements to follow. A student who has chosen to study an arts degree can’t take classes in the sciences for example, and vice versa. In this way the Scottish system is very different to the liberal arts, enabling flexibility but not the “broad intellectual capabilities” that the liberal arts supposedly offers.</p>

<p>There is nothing to distinguish St Andrews’ education system from any other Scottish university, so you appear to be saying that because St Andrews is old and small it is unique in Britain, and more akin to American LACs? There are a number of small and historic universities in Britain; Durham and Lampeter spring to mind. Apart from not operating under the Scottish system, which is by no means unique, what does St Andrews have that they do not? I would argue that Oxford and Cambridge, with their collegiate systems and tutorials are the most unique universities in Britain.</p>

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<p>True. There’s nothing like a “liberal arts college” in the UK, and just because St’Andrews is small, that does not mean it’s a liberal arts college. Common mistake, but there are no sifting mayors, and learning psychology while being a history student for example.
Of course I am biased towards Oxbridge, but it is a fact that just these two universities belong to the world top 10 from the UK. (I know, I know, USWN, Times rankings and such, but truly, who really believes in and outside the academia that say, University College London is better than MIT, and Imperial is better than Princeton and Columbia? Nobody, I can telly you.)</p>

<p>Going to study in an UK university other than Oxbridge makes no sense - fun, fun, fun, but the lack of prestige and alumni connections in the US (and worldwide), will make it pretty hard to find a job in the US after graduating a UK university. Surely, there are many fine examples the people received wonderful jobs after returning to the US, but I don’t think that is what usually happens… (In the academia, it rarely ever happens that you have a UK PhD other than Oxbridge, and you receive a tenure track position in the US.) It is much wiser to go to a solid US university that going to the UK - also, overseas fees could be quite high…</p>

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<p>Well, I’d argue that it would make sense to attend a school in the UK other than Oxbridge if the major that you want to study has some advantages. For a person, like myself, who is well qualified but doesn’t have the stats for Ivies to have a chance to focus on my specific major (in my case international relations), the Scottish system sounds a lot better than having to take a bunch of traditional prerequisites like at most U.S. schools.</p>

<p>And as far as finances go, it’s cheaper than everywhere else I’m looking at. I’m obviously being somewhat subjective in my reasoning (i.e. I’m sure majoring in medicine is more difficult of a transition from UK undergrad to U.S. grad), but as far as I can tell, it’s not like gaining an amazing experience abroad is going to hinder me to the point where I’d regret my choice. If I work hard and play hard in conjunction with taking the initiative to find fitting job prospects relating to my major which is apparently a top 5 or 10 in the world program, I’d imagine a place like St. Andrews would be a fantastic option.</p>