<p>I understand that if I live near NYC, and my son is looking at a college in California, he needs an official visit to pay for the flight there and back.</p>
<p>But if the college is within two hours, and the visit consists of:
- the coaching staff meeting with the recruits
- having the recruits work out with the team
- feeding the recruits
- hosting the recruits at a home game
- pairing the recruits with current athletes for lodging
- campus tour</p>
<p>does it still have to be an official visit? Or could that type of program fit into the rules for unofficial visits?</p>
<p>This site says that players <em>CANNOT</em> invite themselves on official visits, they must be asked on one. Going by guidance on CC, my son has asked for two official visits with his top choices and has not been happy with the responses. Is there any way to resolve this? Has anyone else found that to be an issue?</p>
<p>(or is that an indication my son should be spending more time getting recruited, that they don't want him?)</p>
<p>I think if the school provides anything more than a free ticket to an athletic event then it is an OV. In your example, the student is provided meals and lodging, so it is an OV. I think.</p>
<p>^ Right. 3 free event tickets. If anything else is provided over and above standard campus tour stuff, it’s an OV. As for team workouts, if this is D1 or D3, he can’t take part in any organized practice or workout that is run or observed by the coach.</p>
<p>Hmm. So the fact that he already attended a camp that had several current players present and playing and observed by the coach means that the rules were slipping a bit?</p>
<p>And does that change if he does commit, or after he is accepted? I know a player who went to campus and played with the whole team. Or is it really in actuality like a scrimmage where the coach leaves and the players report to him anything about recruits? (or is that all against the rules)</p>
<p>Any word on asking for an official visit being a problem?</p>
<p>I think a camp is different. The NCAA is pretty clear (or as clear as the NCAA can be) that any tryout or skill test observed by a coach is a no-no during an OV or unofficial. For some reason it applies to D1 and D3, but not D2. Also, there is an exception for D1 basketball. </p>
<p>As for whether asking for an OV is a problem - I think it’s all in the ask. If you let a coach know that your calendar is filling up and whether he has any interest in bring you out for an OV, that’s fine.</p>
<p>That’s great, then if he goes to an on-campus camp next month, he can work out with the team with no issue, as long as it is not considered an OV or an unofficial visit.
I love your wording though, I will forward the info to him. He is one of the few teenagers who rarely emails so he is not good at writing them.</p>
<p>He’s really not working out with the team - unless it’s D2 or one of the other exceptions. He’s attending a camp. Players may work the camp (and be paid for their work at a rate no greater then permitted by NCAA rules). The coach runs the camp and, one hopes, watches the players with an eye to recruit.</p>
<p>My S was told specifically to NOT bring his gear. He wasn’t even allowed on the field to pick up balls. He sat in the stands with other kids who were on their OVs. </p>
<p>If he hasn’t been invited on an OV - and others have - it means he’s not on the top list. That doesn’t mean, however, that it’s over at those schools; it means that the game of musical chairs needs to break his way. </p>
<p>rhandco, I see no downside to politely requesting an official visit. In fact, I think it is a good idea, because if the coach is serious about recruiting your son, he will respond quickly, even if he can’t offer an official visit. And if the coach ignores the request, your son will know he is not viewed as a recruit by that coach. Also, for D1 schools, most soccer coaches will ask the top recruits to come on an official visit without any prompting from the player. I’m not sure if this holds for D2 and NAIA.
. </p>
<p>Definitely - I know that a lot of players get work study jobs in the athletics department and helping out at camps. </p>
<p>D3 seems to be on a different schedule than D1, and he’s got a bunch of tournaments and camps lined up just in case. I don’t know if they are having OVs at all, the coach said that most of his players do not apply ED, but the more he can get to apply ED1 or ED2, the better. The D3 coach said something about having 2 or 3 who applied ED 1 or 2, and about 5 others who applied RD.</p>
<p>I’m more worried about academics in the short-term, and so is he. The schools he is targeting are also worried about academics more than sports. </p>
Do they need a transcript before they offer an OV? I have never heard of that before. Should he send an unofficial transcript unsolicited?
If a student mentions targeting Ivies to a non-Ivy, does that show lack of interest so the coach won’t try to recruit, at least not “early”?
Is it a good idea to mention other colleges he is being recruited by? We’ve heard both ways - not mentioning other schools means no one else is interested and the player will be there for you as an alternate - or mentioning other schools to a second-tier school means you are iffy about this school?</p>
<p>My D sent all academic info in in July. Has heard back from 4 out of 5 schools to schedule official visits. One is delayed, hopefully due to a coaching change. I can’t answer the third question. She conveyed the different schools to the coach already. I probably would have advised her against it as the coaches don’t tell the athletes who they are competing for a spot with. Hopefully it doesn’t really matters though. All the schools are basically on the same tier.</p>
<p>I think there are two things involved here. The first is the distinction between official and unofficial visits. As others have said, providing anything of monetary value other than complimentary tickets for an on campus athletic event is prohibited at anything other than an official visit. That said, some schools provide for normal high school students to spend the night in a dorm with current students when visiting a campus, and if available I believe a recruit on an unofficial visit can avail themselves of that opportunity without a violation occurring. </p>
<p>It is up to the school to decide which recruits will be offered official visits. There are limits on how many official visits a school can hold, and how many a recruit can accept. Because of those limits, I would assume that all high academic schools would want a transcript to make sure a kid is in the academic ballpark before offering an official visit. Certainly all the Ivys recruiting my son wanted transcripts, test scores and senior classes as part of their pre read process, which is a necessary predicate to offering the official visit as I understand it. </p>
<p>I have never heard of a problem with a recruit asking if they will be offered an official visit, but unless the school formally offers it, the visit won’t happen. By contrast, an unofficial visit is pretty much up to the discretion of the recruit. The value of an unofficial visit is really dependent on how much time and resources the coaching staff is willing to commit to that particular recruit. My son attended unofficial visits that ranged from all day long affairs encompassing individual meetings with several different coaches and players to a visit that consisted of a handshake from his recruiting coach and a forty five minute campus tour with a current player.</p>
<p>The second thing, athletic evaluations of a particular recruit, don’t really depend on how a visit is categorized but rather what period your particular sport is in on the NCAA calendar; Evaluation, Quiet or Dead. If it is an evaluation period, and the coach has not already used his designated evaluation day in that period for that recruit, I believe the coach can observe the recruit in a workout (which is how the college run camps work under NCAA rules I believe). As far as working out with an NCAA sanctioned varsity team, I believe it is a violation for any individual, not then eligible for NCAA competition, to participate in a structured “practice opportunity”. In that instance though, the violation has to do with the team, not the recruit if that makes sense.</p>
<p>One other point addressing your question about bringing up other schools. The way we handled that was that I would try to work in other schools when chit chatting with a particular coach; “When we visited x, I really liked the y”, or “My son told me that when coach z e mailed him, he mentioned something about a.” The idea was that the coaches would expect the dad to maybe brag a little bit by name dropping while protecting my son from being thought of as less interested or a braggart. The NCAA rule change about unlimited meals for atheletes as well as academic support programs provided fertile ground for these drop ins by the way. </p>
<p>If the school is interested they will ask for all academic info and either the coach or admissions will do pre-read. Before OV they may ask for transcript, some may ask for an essay and some may even want to see a completed application. They will ask for NCAA ID. If the coach did not request detailed academic info - this is not a good sign.
If the school is 2 hours away you can ask for an UV if OV was not offered. Some coaches are actually not good or are not comfortable playing games with recruits and stringing them along. So your son can “string himself” and hope that some of their top choices will not materialize. You can send transcript to maintain contact.
Questions about where else you are looking and what OVs and when you are attending are usually being asked. Not sure if you should volunteer this info if not asked.
I do know about potential local recruits practicing with the team and coaches (not during UV/OV). It is usually setup as some kind of a club or camp.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your advice and guidance.</p>
<p>The only whole team situation I know of was for a D2 school and the player was already admitted. I don’t know if already being signed matters. I believe it was before the end of the signed players senior year.</p>
<p>The players who were helping out at the Ivy on-campus recruiting camp were doing work study.</p>
<p>My son does have his test scores and GPA listed on recruiting sites he sent links to. I once messed up a great job opportunity by being too pushy and asking too many questions. Here I think his recruiting timeline is slower than we would like.</p>
<p>In limited circumstances meals can be provided during unofficial visits.</p>
<p>NCAA rules require that a recruit send the college SAT or ACT scores and a transcript and that they register with the NCAA eligibility center before an OV.</p>
<p>Evaluation of a recruit by a college coach is forbidden by NCAA rules during an unofficial or OV. A recruit is permitted to work out during an OV (swimmers do this) but a coach cannot observe these workouts. NCAA rules permit colleges to hold on campus camps and clinics if they allow any high school athlete to attend.</p>
<p>For several reasons I would not mention other colleges unless you or your athlete is asked directly about this. If your athlete is on an OV at some point they will probably be asked about other OV they have planned. Coaches are well aware that recruits are pursuing other schools and mentioning other schools without being prompted may show lack of interest. </p>
<p>What is the difference between a tryout on campus and a camp?</p>
<p>That they can’t disallow any HS athlete from the camp?</p>
<p>My son has gotten invites to “recruit days” which were not otherwise publicized. But would I be correct that if he invited his friend to go to the recruit day, when the friend did not get the same invite, the coach could not forbid that without breaking NCAA rules?</p>
<p>My son is registered with NCAA and his transcript has been received and is in the system. Maybe it is easier to give his NCAA registration number and the coach can look it up, instead of sending his transcript by email?</p>
<p>Rhandco – In the perfect world you could just tell a coach to look up the info you already sent to the NCAA, however, all the coaches my son interacted with asked for a copy of his transcript and test scores sent directly to them via email. </p>
<p>Coaches need grades and scores in hand before any OV and it was easier to just send one more pdf copy via email than try to tell the coach a different way to obtain the info. I got the impression that the only one that gets the info from the NCAA system is the school’s compliance officer and most coaches don’t use the NCAA system at all.</p>
<p>rhandco, yes an “ID camp” for D1 soccer technically must be open to anyone who registers and pays the fee unless the camp has reached capacity. Coaches can try to stack the camp by giving direct invitations to their key recruits, but it must be “advertised” and open to all age appropriate players. Once the camp starts, nothing prevents the coaching staff from segregating players based on ability. I’m pretty sure these rules apply to D3 soccer as well.</p>
<p>With D2, the recruit can practice or tryout with the team before preseason practices begin. Not sure about NAIA.</p>
<p>Ah, maybe that is why - I think it was D2 for that other player practicing with the team.</p>
<p>The Maryland camp definitely had segregation of players. It was pretty flagrant. Then they kept his email and continue to ask for donations for their athletic program.</p>