@TV4caster if companies weren’t valuing what interns were bringing to the table, they would fire them. I don’t think any company would keep an intern just to “cut them a break”.
Post #230. I too have doubt about that scenario. It sounds unlikely, not only a security risk. If the words get out from the intern that so and so will do this at this company, all he’ll will break loose. Most likely scenario is the intern is a son or daughter from another executive so that makes it even more unfair to the poor and middle class. Nepotism at best.
Or, you do what you designed the internship to do and teach them and show them the inner workings of your organization in hopes of interesting them to work in it in the future, while understanding that the interns value is not present day, but future value.
It is rather common for an unpaid intern to be absolutely clueless about an organization, but their value, which is really a personal benefit not a company benefit, is they are willing to learn.
I see that some are confusing unpaid internships (and paid ones), as a true working experience, when it is really only designed as learning experience, more akin to the classroom.
Obviously, you have never run a company because you define things in ways they do not exist in the real world.
At least half of interns each year in most companies do not cut it in that the company would not ask them back because they suck in one form or another. However, since the majority of unpaid internships are only 4 to 12 weeks (same length for most paid ones I know of), no need to dismiss them unless they are shooting up the place or exhibiting uncomfortable behavior with staff.
It often takes 4 weeks alone to assess initially anyway, so it is very common to cut an intern a break who is not working out well, as he will be gone very soon anyway. A company gains nothing by creating a dismissal fiasco for an intern, as it gets back to the school or social networks and your company gets a bad name. Like with anything, some interns do not do well, but since they are given essentially zero consequential tasks, no need to worry.
@GMTplus7 - I see your post, but need to run now though. Will review it later.
I’m a high school rising senior, and I have an unpaid internship this summer! I agree with a lot of the other commenters that if you are doing work that paid interns do and/or employees do, then you should be paid. In my case, there are paid graduate interns also working there (it’s at the public policy center of the state college) and regular employees. However, the high school interns do different work. Our bosses allow us to do our own research project (this is the main focus of our whole internship), which is very educational, fun, and enlightening. We choose the topic/question, research it, and write a paper or presentation about it. The grad interns and our bosses occasionally help us with finding resources and information, or pointing us in the right direction, but most of it is self-directed. I feel very lucky to have gotten the internship, especially while still in high school, and to get the chance to learn how public policy works. However, if we were doing the same work as the grad interns, then I don’t think that would be justified. But since they’re making a lot of accommodations to allow us to get this experience, which they most likely wouldn’t have been able to do if they had to pay us, I think it’s fine that we are unpaid. In my case at least, not getting paid is worth having such a great experience.
- Why is it that someone else gets to decide whether a company and an unpaid intern can mutually agree to work together?
Because there are law to protect those without power. Sometimes those laws are not what either party wants. Those two particular parties would be happier without laws regulating the pay, hours worked, safety, but the law doesn’t really care about that particular employer and laborer, the law cares about everyone.
If there were no laws against it, a moving company could go down to the corner near Home Depot and ‘engage’ a guy to haul stuff for the day for $5/hr. The employer is happy, the worker is happy. Who isn’t happy is the government, who received no tax money, and the legal worker who was willing to do the work for $8/hr. Who isn’t happy is the competitor of the moving company who is following the law and paying the required wages, so loses out on work because its bids aren’t competitive.
It’s no different in an internship. The company finds the intern who is willing to do the work for free. The company is happy, that intern is happy. Who isn’t happy is the other intern who couldn’t take the internship for free because he needs a job. Who isn’t happy is the government who gets no taxes off it. Who isn’t happy is the insurance company who might be sued because the unpaid intern was hurt on the job and suddenly no one knows what his status is (employee, guest, business invitee?).
The worker is not “happy”; the worker is resigned. In this situation there is an unequal balance of power. The worker offers to work for 5 bucks because it’s better than nothing. Then a competing, more desperate person offers to work for $4.50. Then an even hungrier person offers to work for free in exchange for the remote possibility of fulltime employment…
There should be a legal basement rate.
And meanwhile NY shows us what can be done when workers stand together and value themselves in the workplace:
http://www.newsweek.com/new-york-plans-minimum-wage-raise-15-hour-fast-food-workers-356513
That is what unpaid internships should be (and those would be on the correct side of the law). But there do appear to be at least some industries where using unpaid interns to do “go for” entry level work that is not particularly meaningful as a learning experience (other than perhaps warning the interns of an employee-unfavorable labor market in that industry). These are the ones that people here criticize (and which may run afoul of the law).
We all seem to be talking about different versions of the “unpaid” internship. There are summer internships, post college graduation internships and internships that earn college credit. I have issues with the first 2 being unpaid and am not sure how I feel about the internships that earn credits. Although I did read that both NYU and Columbia have recently stopped the unpaid internships for credit.
From my own personal experience where I see the most abuse with unpaid internships is with rising high schools seniors or just graduated seniors with summer internships --especially with tech related start ups.
The norm for summer jobs or internships in tech is for them to be paid – quite well if the hiring market is robust. A completely unpaid internship at a for-profit employer should be avoided, as that just indicates a shady employer trying to exploit the naive. If it is a true ground floor startup opportunity (rather unlikely for a typical summer intern), there should at least be generous amounts of founders’ stock as compensation.
@twoinanddone When regulation stopped coal companies from putting children at risk in coal mines (black lung, lost limbs) that was a helpful use of government labor policy. Your “other intern who needs a paying job” is an example of trying to make life fair for everyone. I had to work in the college food service when I was in college when other kids were free to study or do internships. Boo hoo. The larger issue is needing more internships not slapping more demands on the organizations generous enough to offer them.
I did mean permanent. If a company needs 10 people to run a department but only wants to pay for 8, they can create 2 permanent unpaid internships and have a constant supply of free labor. The people change year to year, but the position doesn’t.
Many years ago I worked for a TV station that brought several unpaid interns in each year. They wrote and edited news stories, operated cameras, ran the board during broadcasts, and did many other tasks that regular employees did. The average starting salary was ~$20k/year. The interns did the same job and earned zero.
For an internship Experience >>>>>>> Earnings. If students are willing to work unpaid, and employers are willing to hire them, why prevent it from happening? Another excellent ruling by the SCOTUS.
What’s so “generous” about the film production of ‘Black Swan’ having college students perform unpaid, noneducational menial work like fetching coffee & placing lunch order? That’s the work of a caterer or secretary.
Businesses exist to make money. A department presents a budget that is approved or disapproved by the CFO or someone representing her. They are trying to get as many things done in a year or quarter as possible with a limited amount of funds. Pay raises for your best staff, new hires to help your overworked crew, new equipment, are some of the items that would have high priority. Taking care of interns - even unpaid interns - is an added expense and a distraction. Some companies encourage their employees to perform voluntary community service to build good will with the community and I think an element of altruism helps the people in the organization feel good about the company.A few employees take advantage of this and most don’t. To do something like a “Take Your Kids to Work Day” means you have to have volunteers and time off task. Unpaid internships would be similar. You have someone who enjoys kids and thinks “hey wouldn’t it be cool to be able to share this experience with young people”? You have to get the idea past legal and HR and your management - you need time and a few other volunteers and a small amount of money for t-shirts, food, activities and prizes to keep things fun and entertaining.
In the example of being a go-fer on the set of Balck Swan - the young people see what’s going on behind the scenes. How cool is that? They are making connections. They see the grunt work, the stars, the bit players, the directors, the musicians, the costume makers, make-up artists, the lighting techs … What a great opportunity that could be put at risk by well meaning but out of touch people.
Correction: the perform some of the grunt work, and that is what makes it illegal. If they were only sitting and watching, it would be no problem.
Additional Correction: they PAY to perform some of the grunt work, and that’s what makes it egregious.
Only kids w savings, trust funds, deep-pocketed parents can afford to provide “free” labor. Lower income kids are shut out bcs there is no institutional FA to enable them to give up a summer of paid work.
I did an internship in the state legislature as a class in college. Yes, I paid for the credits, and was expected to do as much work as I would for a regular 3-4 credit class, about 15 hours a week for 9-10 weeks. I had an academic adviser, and I had to submit a paper about legislation that I followed through the semester. The senators and representatives really were allowing us to follow them around because they thought it was the right thing to do, to train us, to show us government. I think they filled out a survey at the end for our course but made no other reports and didn’t provide supervision. They did have us doing a little bit of grunt work too, mostly just to keep us busy and it was nothing they wouldn’t do themselves - get coffee, make copies, run things over to the secretary of state or pick something up they forgot at home (I had a local rep). No prima donnas, everyone was a grunt, including the legislators.
Law students are paid to be interns at the big firms during the summers. They are wined and dined and paid. It is a cushy job that many would do for free just to get a foot in the door. Nope. They must pay ‘interns’.
There are many people who would work for less than minimum wage, who would PAY to be an intern to the rich and famous, who don’t want or need the college credit. Too bad because we have laws against that. TV stations and movie studios and rock bands and NFL teams could have an entire staff working for free and calling them all interns if it were allowed. It needs to be controlled, so it is. People would pay their own way to Silicon Valley and work for free just to get in the door. Nope, nope nope.
Based on your post, I understand that you have never heard of such positions, have not known anyone who has taken such a position, or even inquired of a company of such positions. I gather there is lots of self-selection going on here.
I will speak for my company when I (and my executives) had unpaid interns - the unpaid internships that were with executive management were posted in the career listings of our four main go-to schools which were Harvard, Williams, Amherst, and Princeton. They were slated for only superior rising juniors and seniors. In addition, I had three professors that I used as sort of headhunters that would, after clearance with the career office, present to the top students in their departments, as a special opportunity if they were interested. (I personally got such an offer out-of-the-blue for doing research my sophomore summer, as the researcher called one of my professors and said he was looking for a student to assist with a new thing he was working on. I darn sure jumped at the chance given who the researcher was, and I would be learning and partaking in something completely new at that time, and not done before. I was given a small stipend to cover food, but was never paid a salary of any sort - duration 8 weeks.)
Additionally, we have had top students contact us directly about learning about an area of the business and whether there were short 2 to 4 week unpaid internships available. Yes, those kids could afford not being paid. I personally did two of those myself back in the 80s, as well.
Such listings at colleges still exist today, as my DS found several at his school this past spring - it should not be difficult to have a student search them out, but tell them be very careful about putting them out in public, as I know that the schools protect their listings, even for the paid internships, from public disclosure. Even in the 80s, we were not allowed to distribute the internship information from the career office to people other than other students in the college, as the companies were very specific about which schools and type of students apply.
Outside of the school’s career office, the easiest way is to contact the main trade organization of the industry you are interested in or a specific company directly and ask which executives in which companies / divisions have unpaid shadow internships in X field(s) for you to learn how Y functions.
As for me, my interns never did grunt work, as they were way too smart for that nonsense, needed real thinking stuff to remain engaged and were actually in a learning environment, not a working one. That was not hard to do for they were there to observe and learn the workings of whatever position they were shadowing. It was often tough for many to keep up when they realize how difficult it could be to solve a problem on the other side of the world in 6 hours.