UPenn Versus Claremont McKenna College

Hey, I’m a high school senior who is deciding where to apply Early Decision this coming Fall.

I have legacy at UPenn and my stats are definitely in the running so some might say just go with UPenn because of the status/rank. My college counselor at school tells me he thinks I’d actually have a better chance of getting accepted to UPenn than CMC ED because of my legacy, but says I’m still definitely very competitive at both.

I visited UPenn twice and Claremont McKenna once. As a Northeasterner, I fell in love with Southern California and was amazed by the different opportunities CMC would offer me. My passion is for political science and economics and I hope to pursue a career in government. Claremont McKenna has a strong focus on these areas and with the Washington Program, along with their top-notch internship opportunities, I feel it might be perfect.

UPenn has the national status though that a small liberal arts school doesn’t. While the Forbes 2017 ranking places Claremont McKenna just under Penn and above other schools like Columbia, I am still hesitant at choosing a lesser known school.

Obviously Penn offers terrific opportunities that come with an Ivy degree, but could CMC actually offer better/more opportunities for political internships and matriculation into grad school? My main gripe with UPenn aside from this is the environment. UPenn is known in many circles to be a very stressful environment (I know there have been a number of suicides.) This, compared to Claremont McKenna which maintains a career focus while being ranked the #1 “These Students Love Their College” in Princeton Review makes me think CMC is the way to go.

Could anyone dispel with the notion that UPenn is a stressful, somewhat depressing place to be? And are CMC and Penn’s political opportunities roughly equal or does Claremont McKenna’s focus on government lead to more internships?

Thanks.

I can’t imagine CMC being harder to get it no than Penn even for a Penn legacy, unless you legacy status is really really strong ( i.e multi-generation Penn alums, rich family with big donations at Penn and connections).

In terms of political internships Penn offers at least as much and probably more. Amongst other things, It has a program that places students in DC internships.
Check out the following.
https://piw.sas.upenn.edu
https://publicpolicy.wharton.upenn.edu/about-us/
http://pennpoliticalreview.org
http://www.penngpa.org

Also you could take classes in its top 10 law school as an undergrad and even submatriculate to the law school. Penn def offers top notch opportunities for people interested in politics.

Regarding the environment, sure Penn will be more intense than CMC college but depressing is not an accurate description. Penn is intense but it is also very social, with a lot of student organizations and social clubs that serve as outlets for people to find their social groups on campus and have a good time. Also especially the liberal arts majors at Penn are not that stressful, competitive. Regardless of that though I think Penn gets a bad rep with the while competitive thing. Sure Penn students are competitive, but they are competitive with themselves, not against each other. They really push themselves but the vast majority is very willing to help out their peers.

Career-wise Penn is a no brainer, but follow your heart if you think you’ll be happier on the West Coast.

As a Penn grad, it’ll definitely be stressful. The student body is accomplished and you’ll always be busy with ECs/OCR.

@aoeuidhtns i’m not interested in doing the consulting/i-banking route though. Rather going into a think tank, work for a congressperson, maybe go to law school, and eventually run for office. Is Penn still the best even if I don’t want the consulting route?

I know a few people who went to DC think tanks such as Brookings, but you’re right that it’s not a popular track for most students (less than 5% of the class based on the job report). On the other hand, almost 50% of every graduating class goes into consulting or finance at Penn which ends up creating that “preprofessional” atmosphere.

If you think law school is definitely in your future, I’d argue that Penn would be slightly more advantageous assuming you graduate with the same GPA/LSAT.

First, Penn also has a strong Washington program called Penn in Washington that has all of the opportunities you would remotely need for a semester or an internship in Washington Dc at a think tank. . https://piw.sas.upenn.edu/

If that wasn’t enough, Penn now has Joe Biden and the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement which will open its Washington, D.C. office later in 2017. Andrea Mitchell just donated a $$$ gift to endow the Andrea Mitchell Center for the Study of Democracy at Penn. The Andrea Mitchell Center will build on the work of the Penn Program on Democracy, Citizenship, and Constitutionalism, an initiative established with Mellon Foundation support in 2006. Internships, and research opportunities in every field are plentiful and easy to get while at Penn. Penn’s alumni base Quaker net offers contacts second to none in every field to expand your options further. I don’t think Claremont McKenna can compare to be honest in that regard.

The faculty at Penn are top leaders in their fields and integrate real world experience into their courses in a way that stimulates intellectual discourse and real world problem solving. For example my son (in Wharton) just called me excited bc his Statistics professor said he is teaching this stat2 math class through the lens of statistical Urban planning. How different types of urban housing affect crime rates- high rises versus row homes single family homes apts etc… the math lectures he has been to so far have been fascinating. This is the norm at Penn not the exception.

Also I think Claremont McKenna is known for its non diverse student body- mostly white conservative. I know its part of the 4 school consortium but I think only one school Pitzer is known for diversity in ethnicity. Penn is pretty diverse with many international students. My son says he has many late night intellectual discussions of global and cultural viewpoints. You can also get involved with the West Philly initiative if you want to get into real world planning and problem solving.

But Penn is hands down pre-professional. The students aren’t so much competitive with each other (they are very helpful to each other son says) but they are achievers and sometimes when you hear all of what your friends are doing- internships/ research/ interviews/ travel/ startups… you can easily feel inferior and put self pressure on yourself that you are not measuring up…

My son actually thrives in this bc it inspires him and pushes him and he loves that … but it isn’t for everyone. There are so many opportunities (almost too many) and you will be busy busy busy…

“Also I think Claremont McKenna is known for its non diverse student body- mostly white conservative. I know its part of the 4 school consortium but I think only one school Pitzer is known for diversity in ethnicity. Penn is pretty diverse with many international students.”

This is incorrect. CMC has one of the highest percent of international students of any top school. A look at the enrolled statistics at both schools:

UPENN: 43.3% White, 20.5% Asian, 11.8% International, 10.3% Hispanic, 7.3% Black, 4.2% Mixed Race
CMC: 41.9% White, 17% International, 14.1% Hispanic, 10.4% Asian, 5.8% Mixed Race, 4.5% Black

Also, consortium members Harvey Mudd and Pomona are on a percent basis less white than Penn (Mudd- 35.5% white; Pomona- 38% white)

I don’t really have an opinion on Penn vs CMC for the OP, but the sweeping characterization of CMC as “mostly white conservative” is misleading. That was true in the past (my H is an alum). But @nostalgicwisdom has already provided the statistics showing that these days CMC is less white than Penn, and Pomona and Mudd are even more diverse. Pitzer and Scripps may have reputations for being super liberal, but both are in reality less diverse than CMC or Pomona. (Bigger endowments means better financial aid and a more diverse student body, and Pitzer and Scripps have small endowments.) As for characterizing CMC as “mostly conservative”, note that the CMC campus has been rocked by many protests in support of BLM and students of color (e.g., the protest against Heather MacDonald). Regardless of what you think about those protests, they show that the CMC campus is hardly a bastion of unopposed conservatism.