<p>I know I'll get some biased advice if I post here, but I need a good amount of input. </p>
<p>A bit of background: I plan to major in either molecular biology or biochemistry and go on to graduate school to get a PhD in genetics. However I also hope to explore various areas of study and maybe even double major in a humanities. I'm from California which factors in a bit on my decision.</p>
<p>I'm mainly leaning toward either Yale or UC Berkeley, but I was invited to Penn as a Vagelos Scholar in the Molecular Life Sciences. I'm looking to get into research early on and perhaps even publish a paper before I finish undergrad.</p>
<p>Aside from environment and aesthetics (I've visited all three universities), which of these three would best prepare me with connections, research opportunities, and a good biology education?</p>
<p>My thoughts: UC Berkeley has a great biology program but it's one of the more popular majors; it's also a fairly large, competitive school. Yale isn't as well known for the sciences but has a smaller Biology department that may be beneficial in terms of attention and research opportunities. I don't know much about Penn.</p>
<p>Any help is greatly appreciated. I never thought I would find myself in such a difficult, yet fortunate position.</p>
<p>Yes, Yale isn’t exactly famous for biology, but that doesn’t really matter at the undergraduate level. What does matter is the amount of exposure and personal attention you will get as an undergraduate at Yale in a small science program (comparatively speaking). You’ll probably receive a lot more research opportunities early on, since the number of people going after those spots is going to be smaller at Yale.</p>
<p>Research opportunities at Penn are EVERYWHERE. I also know some people in the Vagelos MLS program, and they are given special attention and likely have even more opportunities. CURF (Center for Undergraduate Research & Fellowships) is a great way to get involved with research at Penn. Being involved in the Vag program at Penn will actually probably be even better, in terms of attention and opportunities, than going to Yale or Berkeley. </p>
<p>The Vagelos program is great if you know you are interested in the biophysical sciences (biochem or biophysics as opposed to just biology). If you succeed in the Vagelos program you will get into a great grad school in science. My three closest friends at Penn are in Vagelos, two of them are going to MIT and the other UChicago. Other alums I know ended up at Harvard, Stanford, and Cambridge. </p>
<p>However, it is an incredibly rigorous program with an attrition rate well over 50%. The required course load is very significant and includes more math and physics that the typical biochemistry major would take. One of these course is modern physics which can be a very tough course. A lot of the attrition rate is also due to changes in interest though so people may quit and go on to do great things in their new field.</p>
<p>If your interests lie more in bio than biochem or you do not particularly want to take more math, I don’t think you would like MLS. The biochem major itself is great too at Penn. Students do a lot of research, but it is definitely one of the top three hardest majors in the college and the grading in the chem department is probably the harshest in the college.</p>
<p>The things I have heard about the biology department seem pretty mixed. Some people really like it, some people complain a lot. However these people are usually the premeds so you should take what they say with a grain of salt if you are the type that wants to do a PhD.</p>
<p>I replied in the other forum you originally posted this in but had some further thoughts. First of all, I concur with Poeme about how MLS requires a keen interest in the biophysical sciences and math (and I’m wondering if I don’t have a son who is one of his closest Vagelos friends going to MIT in the fall). By the way, most program participants also take a very healthy dose of bio courses along the way. If Vagelos is a real consideration, I would think it would be nicer to be one of 15-20 students rather than the mass at Berkeley but I understand Berkeley is closer to home and that is a plus. I can’t really speak to Yale but know that its graduate program in bio is highly rated and that usually has a trickle down effect. You probably can’t go wrong at any of them so trust your instincts, make a decision and never have buyer’s remorse. The grass is not always greener on the other side.</p>
<p>I definitely agree that all of your choices are great and unique in their own way and that you can’t make a bad decision at this point.
I have never actually been in MLS (I don’t have any interest in biochem or biophysics), but I think my perspective might still be of interest to you. I have been in many classes (well over 8) with students from Vagelos and can also provide insight from the experiences of someone outside the program who has had very similar research and academic experiences. I have also interacted with Dr. Lu (and he appears to know more about me than I had previously thought).</p>
<p>First off, I have found that all of the students who stayed in the program in my year are incredibly brilliant. To be around them is great as they have been a very positive influence in my own academic development. However, you shouldn’t just stay in the program for security and/or summer funding since with some more effort you can get that from other places which may also allow you to do an REU off campus (I think you should do this senior year after establishing yourself at Penn. It helps to broaden your experience and get a reference letter from someone at another institution). Dr. Lu is a great advisor and advocate to have if you are interested in the more physically oriented life sciences, but if you are not completely committed it may make your coursework less flexible (although I have noticed he is pretty flexible in course substitution). I do agree with Professor Lu’s idea that knowing more math and physics will only help you in the life sciences, but you may not. You may not be interested in classes like modern physics. In my year (and this semester) it was taught by a brilliant and inspiring professor who was also demanding and presented some very advanced material in class beyond what was tested. This confused a lot of students but will be of great use later on, especially in pchem and quantum.</p>
<p>If you excel in this program and apply to PhD programs, or in the sciences in general, you are pretty much guaranteed to get into at least one if not a few top ten or five grad programs. I myself made just a difficult decision between three excellent programs, two of which gave me completely unexpected and mysterious fellowships which I later found out were very special. I also have a first author publication in one of the top two journals in my field. The mentorship I received at Penn most definitely helped me achieve this.</p>
<p>Since, decisions day is coming soon I would like to give you some advice.</p>
<p>Since you have narrowed it down to UC Berkeley, Penn, and Yale. You may have gotten a really nice letter from the Vagelos program, but from experience you are not guaranteed a spot in the program. I am pretty sure more than 300 admitted students receive the same letter you received and then the number of people who actually graduate within the program each year at Penn is 10-20. It is incredibly rigorous and it has close to a 90% drop-out rate. </p>
<p>I would say, in reality that you are choosing among Berkeley, Penn and Yale. The opportunities Vagelos offers can be met by the same things at other schools because Berkeley and Yale are top notch research universities. Even if you came to Penn and decided not to do Vagelos, you have basically, if not entirely the same research opportunities. Another thing to note, within the Penn Vagelos program is it tries to sell you on some money in sophomore and junior year research, which is not all guaranteed. In addition, it may try to sell you on getting a Master’s which is not at all guaranteed as well.</p>
<p>If I were you, personally I would go to Yale, as it is a top notch school, with a great reputation at both the national and international level, and in my personal opinion more resources and faculty focus on research for undergrads.</p>
<p>In case you haven’t already seen it, here’s a very recent article in The Daily Pennsylvanian about this and the other two Vagelos programs (Life Sciences Management and Integrated Program in Energy Research) at Penn:</p>
<p>All are solid choices ripe with opportunities. If cost is basically the same across all 3, go with your gut. I know successful science grads from all 3 schools, though Penn is more of a mixed bag from my observation. </p>
<p>The Vagelos class did very well this year. They are mostly doing PhDs (in chemistry, biophysics, biochem, physics) and from what I remember off the top of my head for PhD programs there are 3 MITs, 1 Harvard, 2 Uchicago, 1 UCSF, 1 Stanford, and 1 Berkeley among others. There are 14 students graduating from MLS this year. If you look at past statistics of MLS grads and challenge award winners (not always in MLS) there is a very high fraction that ends up at Harvard and MIT. The other chem and biochem majors do very similarly.</p>