<p>4Kids, only at elite schools. Most schools barely have more than federal aid to give to poor students. A whopping 5600/year for the poorest of the poor.</p>
<p>I didn’t read this entire post so if I duplicate I apologize. Here is a strategy I thought of, or read some where. If you own your home and still owe a substantial amount then use your liquid assets to pay down or even pay off the home and then set up a home equity you can draw from. I believe this would shift your assets from something considered to something that is not considered.</p>
<p>KC…nope. At those most generous schools, thee equity in your primary residence is considered as an asset to some degree. So if you pay off the house, you will have a huge asset that WILL be assessed to some degree.</p>
<p>4kidsdad–</p>
<p>I brought up my own situation as a way of showing that there are two sides to the story and that people’s economic position can change over the course of a lifetime. We can all be more tolerant and try to see the other side, especially since there is plenty of entitlement to go around.</p>
<p>No need to assume I am whining or trying to game the system. Older D got talent merit aid and younger D is full pay at NYU. I am appreciative that I have options in life and can afford the choices we made. Just saying that in the future if any or all of your children pass the economic threshold for receiving aid, you may assume a different perspective on the issue.</p>
<p>My situation is similar to yours, OP. I am extremely grateful for the advice and information from the posters who have chimed in here and elsewhere on this forum. I’m lucky I found it early in my D’s high school career, so have a decent idea of what to expect and what to look for. Many many people in my shoes do NOT understand what was discussed here and are now coming to an very uncomfortable realization re: college costs. Thanks again to those who were helpful here!</p>
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<p>Of course not, it’s more likely the expensive house and cars. I know, many will tell me that they don’t buy new cars, live in the least expensive house in their neighborhood…But the truth is, you DO have choices. Most people get by with on a far lower income that 200K and pay a greater percent of their income towards college despite financial aid. Try to live on what those who get full rides (60K or less I believe at an elite school) and you can easily pay for college from your paycheck. </p>
<p>One of my kids was awarded generous financial aid at an elite school. I would rather of had an income that allowed me to pay full price. She is now a full pay student. I am doing much better financially despite the fact we are paying full freight.</p>
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Very well said. Rich kids and kids from upper middle class do have more options in life.
They also have a lot more resources to prepare them for such statistics, such as private elementary and secondary schools, private tutoring, summer and sports camps, trips to other countries.</p>
<p>Harsh truths:
1 -Need-based financial aid should NOT got to the top income quintile . . that means if your family income is somewhere north of 6 figures you should not expect any/much in the way of need-based financial aid . . . being in the top 20% of earners in the country means that you are not needy
2- LOTS OF SCHOOLS have merit money they provide to entice students for various reasons . . . families in the BOS/NY/WASH corrdior can gain access to those funds if their kids go to schools in Ohio or PA (for example) instead of NY/MA/CT . . example: think Oberlin/Gettysburg instead of Wesleyan/Trinity
3- Just like with clothes so it is with colleges: you do not have to pay full price; you can CHOOSE to but you can keep the “all in” annual costs in the $20k-$30k range
4- a few colleges - just a few - do provide need-based aid for families that earn $120-$180k per year . . think Brown, Wellesley, and the like . . and these schools are really hard to get into (e.g., Brown rejects ~85% of salutatorians that apply)<br>
5- colleges expect families to fund college education from three sources of money: 1) prior earnings, aka savings; 2) current earnings and 3) future earnings, aka loans 
6 - privileges accrue to the upper and upper-middle classes in the form of primary/secondary school enrichment activities and options that are much much harder for poorer kids to get . . . if you don’t like that, vote and work at the local/state/national level to change it</p>
<p>Realistically there are some communities where the cost of housing is truly unbelievable and the pay scale, while higher, doesn’t make up the difference. Our home is assessed in the current market at approximately $500 to $550K–at one point it was up to approximately $700K+. We could go a bit smaller in our neighborhood or move to a neighboring town that has good schools, too, but in the end, you are still at the $450 to $550K range for a very standard house on Long Island without jumping to the luxury market. And Long Island is a bargain today for young families versus trying to raise a child in Manhattan or some of the outer boroughs of NYC with good schools.</p>
<p>Do we chose to live here? Yes. But the answer isn’t vacating cities like NYC or San Francisco either. Yet, our income and home values are usually considered the same as in other areas of the country with lower costs of living.</p>
<p>My older D and I laughed when two of her out-of-town friends visiting from NYU (and getting a bunch of need-based aid) each called our house “cozy” referring to its small size.</p>
<p>High stats kids from high income families have options - full pay, merit, etc.</p>
<p>One of the groups of kids that have fewer options are “good students” (3.0 - 26 ACT) from middle income families ($50k-75kish) who have little hope getting into full need schools, and their families can either barely afford or not afford their EFCs. </p>
<p>Those kids can get into schools that heavily gap (state schools and low/mid-tier privates), but they can’t afford them. Their stats are often not high enough to get “preferential FA” or enough merit to bring the cost down to what they can pay.</p>
<p>BTW–I am not saying that I deserve financial aid. But I am saying that there is real anger in the tone of some posters when people who need to pay full fare or “settle” for a lower ranked school express their worry and surprise at the cost.</p>
<p>How SHOULD financial aid be dispensed? There has to be a quick easy process to check out the info other wise the cost to run the screening will cut into the funds to give out. Be aware that there is not enough money out there.</p>
<p>Right now, those families deemed close to poverty level, those whose kids qualify for lunch programs, with income below $50K or so are eligible for PELL grants which do not have to be repaid. Up to $5600 a year with a zero EFC. </p>
<p>The next layer of guaranteed aid from the federal government comes in the form of subsidized Direct Student loans. No interest charged while in school . </p>
<p>After that come the subsidized Direct Student loans that can be layered on top of the subsidized, and for those students who don’t qualify for need, the entire amount $5500 for freshman year, increasing to $7500 senior year, can be borrowed on a non subsidized basis. </p>
<p>That is all that is guaranteed. Some schools subscribe to Perkins and SEOG federal programs and work study, but none of that is guaranteed. Schools also have their own money that they can dispense as they please. SOme states also have programs with most of them offering some discount on their public school tuition and fees. </p>
<p>Most of the aid is dispensed in accordance to what a person earns the calender year before school starts. It’s tied into those earnings reported on the tax forms and so verified. Also assets are taken into consideration but at about 5.6% over a protection amount that is based on number of dependents and age of the oldest parent. </p>
<p>And where the line is drawn for need, still doesn’t help the vast majority of families that fall under it, because the truth of the matter is that few school, very, very few guarantee to meet full need even as they decide what the definition. Most schools are a lot more stringent than FAFSA in defining need too.</p>
<p>So it’s really the very few kids who are candidates for pretty much the top PRIVATE schools that are the ones that may find themselves disadvantaged in that the parents’ financials say they have to pay so much, and the parents can;t or won’t, whereas their peers whose families are less well off might get financial aid making it possible to go there. </p>
<p>And for those very few kids, well, life’s not fair, and they are still so much better off than those kids whose families CAN"T possibly pay, and no school will pick up the tab other than the local state colleges and community colleges. Many of those kids have to borrow to commute to such schools because their families won’t or can’t pay penny one for college. So where the most of the unfairness is still, is with those who absolutely cannot pay. Really beating on a family with income less than $50K a year is like trying to squeeze money out of a stone. Ludicrous to expect them to pay for a school that costs more per year than the family income is. But a family that makes $200K? And they have assets? Who do you think should have to pay? Remember, that there isn’t enough money out there to begin with.</p>
<p>Besides the universities with likely full tuition for NMF (such as Northeastern, Fordham, Drexel and, I believe, Temple), take a look at the Canadian universities.</p>
<p>It depends on what the student will study and they aren’t as cheap as they used to be, the tuition+room and board runs in the 24K range outside of engineering. </p>
<p>A fair number of Maine students go to McGill (in Montreal) or Dalhousie (in Halifax). McGill has some merit awards, but I’m sure about Dal.</p>
<p>Wow, didn’t mean to open up this can of worms…wish there was a way to delete the thread, but I guess you can’t. </p>
<p>there is much bitterness on both sides and that is unfortunate. I agree with much of what was said on here and thank you all. NOBODY, let me repeat NOBODY on this board who is in the upper or middle class is suggesting that need based aid should go to those with higher incomes. I totally get what that aid is for. </p>
<p>All I, as the original poster, was asking was whether or not there is merit money to try to go after at any schools that we missed. I get that our child is a borderline to even get into those schools, but you just never know what might strike their fancy, so he wants to try.</p>
<p>And I TOTALLY agree that income totally depends on where you live. Not all of our kids went to private schools (mine went public all the way) and were afforded all those luxuries that you seem to imagine the upper middle class has, but they have dreams just like any kid does. And choices aren’t as easy as you make it seem. Jobs usually dictate where we all live and most of us don’t have the option of just up and quitting our jobs to live in a less expensive area. </p>
<p>And I think it was golfdad (or something like that…too lazy to go back and check) said it all, our system is broken. Friends where I work are from other countries and they were floored when we told them how much college was here. They said it was under 6K in many of their countries. Somethings got to change.</p>
<p>And whoever posted the question about what the make up of the ivys must be, I would love to see that. I would guess it is those with need and those that are very wealthy because not many others can justify the expense, or afford the expense. </p>
<p>I’m rambling, but wanted to thank many of you and also to say…stop the bickering. It is so easy to assume a lot about people you don’t know and will never know, but we are all here because we want the best for our children and we are looking for advice on how to achieve that.</p>
<p>Heh… this isn’t really bickering. You should see the old politics forum that doesn’t exist any more! But I think one of the main lessons from this thread is do NOT let your kid get too hooked on a “dream” school (or set of dream schools). Due to the difficulty of admissions and difficulty in funding college these days, part of a parent’s job is to steer your kid to a reasonable list of reach/match/safety schools, several of which you can afford. Best to have the money talk with the kid before they apply (let them know what merit awards or scholarships or whatever they need to receive to make a given expensive school possible). Set some rules on the finances and stick to it. You kid may decide not to apply some places because of that (and this is okay).</p>
<p>One thing I have noticed is that kids do tend to adapt to what is possible in their college search fairly quickly (sometimes more quickly than the parents do). If you give him a universe of choices that makes sense for your family and his situation, and YOU keep a positive attitude toward it, odds are that he will as well.</p>
<p>BSMOM123- Thank you for your post. I truly learned a ton from reading all the responses. I also see your point of view. At the end of the day, I think the ticket to college is just too expensive. I often wonder myself If I would have been better off learning a trade instead of getting my Masters. I would have made much more money and I probably would have enjoyed myself more and had more freedoms. I think we push our kids to do great things, when they can’t even change a tire. Just my two cents.</p>
<p>Bsmom, take some school tours and see what’s out there. What happens a lot at my kids’ schools is that parents often decide that certain schools are worth cashing out some accounts and borrowing and others are not. That’s what it usually comes down to. </p>
<p>Three familes with a kid, same income. One sends kid to public school and saves up the cost of private. One sends kid to public school and spends all of the money that would have gone to that cost. One sends the kid to private school, and as a result does not have the savings that the first one does. The one who saves the money is hit up 5.6% of savings as expected contribution to college. He can pay what he was saving towards college without affecting his life style, and has the cushion of the savings as well. The one who sent the kid to private school is used to having what was paid in tuition unavailable for discretionary spending so it’s going to be less painful paying that amount for college. The one who is used to spending every bit of that income is going to find it very difficult most of the time to cut back and use that money for college. Even more painful it is if the family bought things that require upkeep or are leveraged so that future earnings are earmarked and not available. </p>
<p>But in terms of a college that meets full need, they will all be treated the same way in terms of income, but the one with the savings will be asked to put 5.6% of his stash towards the cost of college.</p>
<p>Bickering- lol.
Thats a love pat.
So-OP, you state that because of your income( it is income not savings that is weighted most heavily when determining need), you will not be eligible for any aid at schools that do not dispense merit aid.
Since COA for one of the “elite” schools runs $60,900 for ONE year, is it safe to say that your income is perhaps 3x that?
If the parents making six figures can’t figure out how to pay for their childs educational expenses, just exactly where should the money come from to help them do so?</p>
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<p>A heads up was given in post #8. :).</p>
<p>The Search function is a wonderful tool; there really is very little that is new under the CC sun.</p>
<p>What it boils down to the vast majority of bright hardworking kids need to be told, as great as they are, they can’t be the big fish recruit in the expensive ivy pond.<br>
They can be the big fish in the cheaper/less elite/state pond or a small fish in the expensive pond. </p>
<p>And, btw, we can’t afford the expensive pond.</p>