Upper middle class financial aid

<p>Personally, I feel that the high achieving students should be rewarded with little to no college tuition costs. Their achievements should be rewarded not punished by an elite tuition. I completely understand that academic achievements are directly tied to the incomes of the parents. But we wouldn’t have engaged in this conversation if it wasn’t for the rapid rise in tuition prices that now challenges the ability for upper middle class parents to afford them.</p>

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See last post of this thread <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1510986-cc-phenomenon-middle-class-no-fa-eligibility-6.html?highlight=middle[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1510986-cc-phenomenon-middle-class-no-fa-eligibility-6.html?highlight=middle&lt;/a&gt;. It mentioned that RICE & CASE WESTERN offer large merit scholarships; however, I don’t know if they’re elite schools or not.</p>

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<p>So… how do you propose funding these institutions to keep them elite? </p>

<p>The basic flaw in your plan, IMO, is that there are far more “high achieving students” than there are seats at “elite institutions”.</p>

<p>@Thumper1 . thanks for your post. I am not sure which schools you are referencing?</p>

<p>I just ran numbers through Yales NPC. I changed the amount owed on the primary residence from $120k to $20k and it did not change the EFC/ENP even one dollar.</p>

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<p>How is it fair to further advantage families with resources over those without?</p>

<p>Mom2collegekids:
You’ve certainly hit the nail on the head. That’s just the situation we’re facing. It’s hard to motivate teenagers to do their best academically, when they realize that community college may be the only affordable option, no matter how hard they try.</p>

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<p>They are … as long as they pick the right college.</p>

<p>there are over 3000 colleges in the US and way more options than either Ivy league or CC. This is where we have to step up as parents and have very realistic talks about money and paying for college long before senior year. We have to man up and say we can only afford X $ for college. These are your options; this amount will pay for school A. If you want school B, then you need to put your self in a position that you can get a scholarship to bring the cost of school B to school A . We owe it to our kids to help them find some choices that they love that are also financially feasible options for the family.</p>

<p>. If I had a dollar for every conversation that I have with a student regarding how much are your parents willing to pay or borrow for college only to have the kid say my mom, dad, parents said don’t worry about it. Then the decision and the aid package comes and the child is crushed because now the parents say they won’t or ca’t pay for it.</p>

<p>I certainly can’t pretend to have the solution. I do have some sympathy, though, for children who have parents who cannot/ will not pay $ for their education. The way the system is set up, there is an expectation that parents will pay their EFC whether that is $5K or $50K. The assumption is that parents will step up and do the right thing for their children. But that is not the reality for many kids. The kids do not control their parents or their parent"s earning or spending decisions, but yet where they can go to college is tied to that. In that sense, I agree with frugaldoctor that high achieving students (regardless of their parent’s income) should be rewarded for their effort. But obviously the question is–who foots the bill?</p>

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Since you also said

I think your plan will increase the gap between the rich and poor in getting the college education; just like in Hong Kong. See [The</a> Hong Kong Institute of Education](<a href=“http://www.ied.edu.hk/media/news.php?id=20130131]The”>http://www.ied.edu.hk/media/news.php?id=20130131)</p>

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<p>Try Harvard’s - it’s much easier for running various scenarios.</p>

<p>Family of 5, 1 in college, $200K income, zero assets = $16,450 aid
Family of 5, 1 in college, $200K income, $50K home equity = $16,450 aid
Family of 5, 1 in college, $200K income, $150K home equity = $11,450 aid</p>

<p>So in this case it looks like Harvard excludes the first $50K of home equity and then expects 5% of the rest to go to college.</p>

<p>High achieving students can be rewarded with little to no college tuition costs. A lot of the state schools do have merit money and some states have great merit money programs for high achievers. There are many schools that give out merit money for high achieving students. </p>

<p>But if you are looking at PRIVATE schools that are comprised entirely of high achievers, surely you don’t expect the school to be FREE to everyone? HPY are PRIVATE. Just like that private prep school in your area that takes only 1 out 4 kids who apply, and charges MORE than what many colleges cost. No different when it comes to college. </p>

<p>Check out your state college stystems and see which schools are offering merit money. I’m sure there are a number of them. But when it comes to PRIVATE schools, especially the top ones where just about everyone going there are high achievers, money only goes to those whose financials are below a certain theshhold which is determined by the financial situation and policies of the schools themselves.</p>

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<p>I don’t consider paying a quarter of a million dollars for a snooty school, when my kid can get a good education for free at a less snooty school to be “doing the right thing”. </p>

<p>Do you consider it wrong for any parent who could conceivably pay for private secondary school to send their kid to a public high school? Are those parents also guilty of not “doing the right thing”?</p>

<p>@Bobwallace, </p>

<p>You are misunderstanding totally what I meant. I am saying that there are some parents from all walks of life who will not pay for their children’s education. Just because the EFC calculator spews out a number and a college will base their financial aid on that number, doesn’t mean that a parent will pay. The kid’s bill is based on the parents income level, but that doesn’t mean the parent agrees to pay it!</p>

<p>I am not talking about having an honest discussion with a child about financial decisions that are sound (state school or merit school vs. full pay private). I am talking about good students who are abandoned in the process because their parents aren’t being responsible and their fate is tied to that. And yes, there may be ways of seeking money on their own through researching various schools, but often kids are unaware of the situation ahead of time and don’t have proper guidance to seek help on their own. The kid has put their effort into school and end up being blind-sided by the reality of their financial situation.</p>

<p>Yale is quite generous and does not use home equity. BUT many of the other highly competitive schools DO use home equity to some degree.</p>

<p>If a family owes $200,000 on their mortgage and is able to use liquid assets to pay that off, why wouldn’t they use the same $200,000 to pay college tuition?</p>

<p>*@Thumper1 . thanks for your post. I am not sure which schools you are referencing?</p>

<p>I just ran numbers through Yales NPC. I changed the amount owed on the primary residence from $120k to $20k and it did not change the EFC/ENP even one dollar.
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<p>KCTaxguy…you can’t use HYPS as examples since they give RARE super aid. Also, they may not use home equity, or may not use much (they may use an income:equity formula.</p>

<p>however, if you were to change your numbers at more typical CSS Profile schools, you would see a difference.</p>

<p>That said, most/all schools give married parents some protected asset amount…somewhere around $40k-50k depending on age.</p>

<p>Bickering? I thought we were just having a discussion. My income is much higher now than when my child first went to her elite school and got generous financial aid. The result is, no more financial aid. But, I have more disposable income now, despite the 60K bill. Sorry, I just can’t see how us upper middle-class folks are priced out of an elite college education.</p>

<p>I think in the case of high achieving students- they have several options.
Students who have need can attend schools that meet full need-although this assumes their family can afford the EFC, which isn’t always true. Our oldest daughters school kept the PROFILE EFC to meet FAFSA EFC, which we appreciated, but EFC was still a stretch.</p>

<p>In that case, they may be able to find less well known schools who will offer some need, but also some merit aid. Honors colleges at flagship Us, are on the lookout for top students.
I wasn’t organized enough to help D find schools that might offer merit awards.
She only applied to one private school.</p>

<p>Top students without need, but whose families cant pay the full price at the most expensive need only schools, may be offered at at the private schools who will offer merit aid to students who will raise their overall numbers.</p>

<p>As has been mentioned before, it is the students who are unlikely to qualify for merit awards, are not competitive enough for 100% need met schools, but whose EFC is perhaps below cost of attendance at their state public schools.</p>

<p>Their parents will be looking at PLUS loans- unfortunately for perhaps more than they really can afford.
A family whose EFC is $18,000 but COA at their directional public is $23,000- can’t really afford that school. Those students are the ones who can have their options limited, not the families whose EFC is $60,000 plus they qualify for merit awards.</p>

<p>^Or families with a 0 EFC who are offered nothing in addition to federal and state grants and loans, which together cover much less than the cost of attandance at even the lowest cost state schools (very common here in Pennsylvania).</p>

<p>Kidz…a family with a $0 EFC would also be offered the maximum Pell grant of about $5600. That plus the $5500 direct loan for freshmen would cover the costs for a community college student who lived at home.</p>