<p>This isn’t exactly a ‘chance me’ type of question (I fully realize that it’s difficult to accurately do that without being Barnard themselves), but I’m going to my Barnard application process this year with an odd situation, and was wondering if I could get any opinions. </p>
<p>My cumulative GPA is low for Barnard—a 3.3. Thing is, my upward trend was freakishly strong. Freshman and sophomore year, I ended up with rather low GPAs (3.0 and 3.1). Junior year, I am ending up with a 3.8 (after a very enlightening summer and some fresh self-esteem!), which is Barnard’s average accepted GPA. Would Barnard really take note of how strong my upward trend is, regardless of the last two years? I just don’t know if I’ve already messed up too badly my first half of high school to be properly considered in the grades department :(</p>
<p>I took two APs this year (my school offers very few that juniors are allowed to take, about 3), and I attend a very competitive and rigorous private school that barely weights APs. I don’t know my unweighted GPA, because they don’t tell us. I’m signed up for two APs and an Honors course next year.
(I also have infinitely more outside of the classroom to offer than in it. Lots of ECs, lots of awards, etc.)</p>
<p>Address the upward trend and the reasons behind it in your application. An upward trend is GOOD–certainly better than the opposite.
Best to you—keep up the good work!</p>
<p>I was in a very similar situation, but my upward trend wasn’t so strong. Had I applied early decision, it would have been, but I foolishly thought I should wait to turn one B into an A- to impress Barnard and after doing poorly on some tests in the second quarter, I ended up with two A’s dropping down to B+'s and that pesky original B staying a B. So now I am currently waitlisted. Moral of the story is that if Barnard truly is your top choice, apply ED. ED rate this year was around 43%-ish I believe whereas RD was 17%. A girl from my school with much worse grades, credentials, scores, rigor of courses, etc. than mine was accepted ED, and even though I’m the one who probably deserves Barnard more, I’m the one sitting on the waitlist. Also, I should note that my SAT score is about 170 over Barnard’s average and my GPA is about .2 under average for my school based on Naviance, and my extracurriculars are some of the strongest at my school (a LOT of community service, and commitment to it–not just a bunch of random projects–as well as leadership positions in several clubs and captain of one varsity sport). Oh and my school is very similar to yours in terms of rigor and limits on AP’s; however, my school doesn’t give any weight whatsoever to AP’s. Also, I took the same exact number of AP’s and Advanced/Honors courses as you (though given the rigor of my school, regular courses are considered to be as difficult and are as highly regarded by admissions people as honors/adv./AP courses at ‘normal’ schools, and I’m sure your school is similar). Bottom line is that every moment of every day I wish I had applied ED, and so I definitely encourage you to do so so that you don’t end up in my miserable situation of waiting and wishing. Anyways, I hope I was able to impart at least some of my jaded admissions wisdom unto you so that you don’t make the same mistake that I did. Best of luck!!! Crossing my fingers for you!!! </p>
<p>p.s. By the way, sorry if my sentences are a completely incoherent jumble of letters–I’m exhausted and practically falling asleep at my computer from volunteering with a bunch of toddlers this morning. Good luck in the admissions process!!!</p>
<p>Okay, so I just reread my last post and it wasn’t nearly as bad as I thought it would be given my extreme level of exhaustion yesterday. However, just to clarify, my SAT score is 170 over and my GPA is .2 under the average of those accepted in the past couple of years from my high school to Barnard (per Naviance). Hope that makes more sense and again, good luck in the admissions process!</p>
<p>Thank you meggles! I am trying not to completely panic. This process is extra nerve-wracking because my upward trend could either completely screw me over at almost all the places I apply, or it could show how much I’ve changed…sigh.</p>
<p>Meggles, I know a number of students deferred with stats like yours who applied to Barnard. It’s difficult to make a one to one correspondence. I would have told you to go RD in hopes of showing the rising trend for one more term. Usually that is the better way to go. One good year is not usually sufficient for a highly selective school to take a chance.</p>
<p>I agree with the captain. RD is the way to go! Don’t let the stats of how many were accepted out of ED applicants fool you into thinking that the adcom would take a candidate with less-impressive “stats” just because they applied ED. Not saying your stats are not good—just that RD gives you more “history” for them to see; you can compare financial aid packages and I just don’t really believe that ED would give you any sort of advantage…</p>
<p>Are you sure? Even if it’s my dream school? I’m not at all discounting any opinions here—I’ve heard such mixed things! Some have said that ED would make the difference of indicating how much I want Barnard more than anywhere else—and that I could be deferred so they can see if I continue an upward trend. Others have said exactly the same thing as you guys. Hmm. Part of my logic is telling me that hey, if I’m a direct reject, they would do it immediately in ED and end it there. If there were unsure, they would defer and wait to see if I kept my enthusiasm for Barnard and my academic trend up. Am I wrong?</p>
<p>You probably are correct—a deferral would allow them to see if you are continuing your upward trend–however, they may well reject you outright without that additional semester’s evidence. </p>
<p>The other big question is: will finances possibly be any sort of factor for you? Or will you (your parents) need significant financial aid for you to attend Barnard? If you will need any aid, you should probably wait and apply RD so you know what other situations will be available to you and can make a reasoned decision about where to attend…</p>
<p>They can also reject you ED because your grades are too low; but if you had a very strong fall semester and they are seeing the application for the first time down the line, have a very different view. It’s not an exact process – it depends a lot on the gut level response of whoever reads your admission file. </p>
<p>I don’t think Barnard would care about your level of enthusiasm. They know how to pick applicants in the spring who are reasonably likely to attend. If they have reason to believe that an applicant thinks of Barnard as a safety or backup school for apps to Columbia or other Ivies, then a show of enthusiasm might be a help. But Barnard doesn’t have any problem filling seats – in the end it comes down to how much they like you, not how much you like them. I mean, if they can see from your file that Barnard is something of a reach, then they are also going to figure out that there is a high likelihood of attendance if you get in – and you can get a message about enthusiasm across in the “Why Barnard” section of the application. </p>
<p>Do you need financial aid? </p>
<p>I’d suggest that you move away from the idea of a “dream school”. Either way you need to develop a college list with schools where you have a high likelihood of admission. If you are rejected or deferred ED you would need to have applications ready to go – so you might as well focus on learning about other colleges in addition to Barnard.</p>
<p>So I realized that I didn’t give full context for my upward trend–it had actually started going up junior year, and it would have continued to increase senior year had I applied earlier. And seeing that Barnard is your top dream school (p.s. @calmom: there’s a difference between ‘dream school’ and ‘reach school’), I would definitely go for ED. The worst thing they could do is reject you, which they would do anyways if you applied RD. But if you end up getting deferred ED, they’ll know how much you love Barnard and you’ll have a greater chance of getting in the ‘second round.’ In the admissions information session as well as in their visit to my high school, the Barnard admissions reps stressed several times what a large impact demonstrated interest and applying ED can make on your app and how they read it and make their decisions, and now I completely regret not heeding their advice. Also, as far as financial aid, if you really want to be able to compare packages, then maybe ED isn’t the best path. However, if you’re admitted ED and Barnard doesn’t meet your full demonstrated need, I’m about 99.9% sure that you can opt out (but if this does happen, you should obviously push and beg the financial aid office before opting out!). Also, I’m not saying that I would have been a slam dunk in ED either, but at least I would know now that I had done just about everything I could do to show Barnard that they’re my top choice. Also, it’s kind of hard to fight with the 43% vs. 17% acceptance rates. If I were you, I would plan on applying to Barnard ED, but keep in mind that if your trend goes down in the first quarter, you can always wait to apply RD. If I were in your shoes, I would start filling out my application as if I were applying ED in late summer and asking for recs and so on and so on in the first few weeks of school and then I would wait to see my first quarter grades: if they’re where you want them to be, send your app in by November 1, if they fell short of your expectations, work super hard to get your grades back up in your second quarter and send your app in on January 1. Also, you should definitely follow calmom’s advice of checking out some other schools, especially if you end up getting deferred or rejected ED. Oh and if your SAT/ACT scores are where you want them to be (along with your GPA because I’m pretty sure that Barnard, as well as most other schools, cares more about GPA and course rigor than test scores) by Nov. 1, then again, ED is a very good option. Again, good luck!! Wishing you all the best in this VERY difficult, tedious, and trying process!</p>
<p>To clear up the financial questions, finances are not part of the decision as to where I attend. But yes–the debate is difficult. I’m also interested in Bryn Mawr, Mt. Holyoke, Bard, and a few other places that are more in my range in terms of strict numbers (Besides the few reaches I mentioned just now). I just feel it would be odd for them to recieve a first choice applicant who DIDN’T apply ED…but again, the points made about those important first quarter/semester grades are solid, too. Should I bother asking Barnard about this directly, or figure it out myself? Clearly, they wouldn’t be able to give me a completely reliable answer without seeing everything first, but perhaps they would have at least something to say on the matter…</p>
<p>Or, a student could get rejected ED who would be admitted RD with the benefit of a strong first semester their high school senior year.</p>
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<p>No evidence whatsoever that “how much you love Barnard” increases chances RD.</p>
<p>Meggles, it seems to me that you are assuming that things would have been different if you had applied ED – but I don’t see how. You posted, " after doing poorly on some tests in the second quarter, I ended up with two A’s dropping down to B+'s and that pesky original B staying a B. So now I am currently waitlisted." – it seems to me that if you had been deferred ED, you would have either had the same result or been outright rejected RD. The reason I say that it could have resulted in a rejection is that its possible that when they defer ED, they have a specific idea as to what they hope to see with the mid-year grades, and if the applicant then falls short, it is seen in a worse light than if they were viewing the application with fresh eyes on a first reading.</p>
<p>I don’t think that is true at all – and I don’t think they really care whether or not Barnard is the “first choice” when making admissions decisions. All admitted student in the RD round are free to choose other schools, and there are many students who are positive that Barnard is their first choice when they submit the application, but who change their mind in the spring.</p>
<p>Actually, calmom, I’m not assuming anything. Carolyn Middleton, the director of admissions at Barnard, said in my information session that those who apply ED and are deferred are generally looked more favorably upon than they would have been if they had applied RD. Also, there were a lot of other personal factors that I’m not going to discuss with complete strangers that had to do with my drop of grades that either I or my college counselor would have been able to justify had that become an issue in the ‘second round.’ Also, StellaCS, I’m sure Barnard receives several RD first choice applicants, myself included, who may have opted out of ED to get higher grades, be able to weigh aid packages, etc. etc. so I don’t think it would be too out of the ordinary for them. In every encounter I’ve had with Barnard, they’ve pushed and pushed ED, so I think if you contacted them about this, they would most likely recommend ED again (but hey, what do I know?). Also, you’ve had such a strong trend that I think you are ready to be a strong candidate in the ED pool, but, of course, no one can ever say for sure what the other applicants will be like next year. I know I keep on reiterating this, but it’s hard to fight with a 43% vs. 17% acceptance rate. The ultimate truth is that both I and calmom are strangers who are not admissions reps. I say follow your gut in terms of what you feel comfortable with. If Barnard is your top top top choice and you’re happy with where your grades and scores are, go for ED. If you have any hesitations, wait for RD. In the end, you’ll end up getting a degree from a great college wherever you go.</p>
<p>I’m sorry to hear that. It definitely reduces my opinion of Barnard overall, because it negates the claim that they are “need-blind”. Everyone knows that students who need financial aid are wary of ED – so obviously favoring a deferred ED applicant over others is just one additional way of tilting admission to those with financial means.</p>
<p>FWIW, I would not have allowed either of my kids to apply anywhere ED. I am grateful that Barnard’s financial aid package was strong enough to allow my daughter to attend, but I don’t like the ED system at all, because it so clearly is defined to benefit affluent students. I understand why colleges use ED, because without that I don’t think a school like Barnard could afford to guarantee to meet full need of its students – but it’s a system that is extremely unfair to middle class students as well as students from most public schools. (By “middle class” I mean students from families earning close to median income levels, not 6-figure earners).</p>
<p>So true, calmom. My family definitely falls into that “middle class” category, and so that was also major contributing factor in my decision to wait for RD. Luckily, the girl who was admitted from my school ED received very generous aid from Barnard, or so I’ve heard.</p>