Urgent Questions from an Incoming CivE Student

<p>I was recently admitted for civil engineering at UC berkeley. However, for some time after submitting my application I have been second guessing my decision to apply for civil Engineering. At this point, I am almost fully intent on switching to L&S and pursuing other fields (Business Administration and CS are two frontrunners currently). </p>

<p>After talking to academic advisers at CalDay, I was ensured that if I achieved a 2.2 during my first semester in Civil Engineering I would be able to switch to Letters and Science. While I am completely confident in my ability to acheive this GPA, I still have concerns about falling behind in the prerequisites for the aforementioned majors as a result of what I hear to be a strict curriculum for first year civE students. Does the CoE allow any leeway for people in my situation as far as curriculum is concerned? In other words, will I be allowed to have a schedule similar to that of someone on the pre-haas track while still techniclly being a CivE major? If not, how much of a disadvantage would it be to my potential admission to haas or CS(assuming its capped) for me to have a semester in which I am taking rigorous core classes such as chemistry that arent neccesary for my major?</p>

<p>For lower division prerequisites, CS requires 8 courses, with the longest prerequisite sequence being 3 semesters. Business requires 7 courses, with the longest prerequisite sequence being 2 semesters. Note that the math courses for civil engineering (1A, 1B, 53, 54) will cover those for CS (1A, 1B, 54) and business (1A, 1B). Since you will take about 4 courses per semester (16 in the first 4 semesters), that should not be a problem.</p>

<p>What AP/IB/college credit do you anticipate bringing in?</p>

<p>Thank you for the reply! The news about math is definitely reassuring. What about science? I saw that chemistry was on the sample first year curriculum for CE students. Do I have to take this? </p>

<p>As far as AP credits are concerned, I have a 5 in Phyicd B and English comp and a 3 in Psychology and Us history. I plan to take econ, gov, Calc Bc, English lit, and bio</p>

<p><a href=“http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/current-undergraduates/curriculum-degree-checks/2012-2013%20CE%20worksheet.pdf[/url]”>http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/current-undergraduates/curriculum-degree-checks/2012-2013%20CE%20worksheet.pdf&lt;/a&gt; indicates that Chemistry 1A/1AL is required for civil engineering. There are some civil engineering courses that require Chemistry 1B as well.</p>

<p>However, if you are in a math course more advanced than Math 1A, you may choose to take Physics 7A first semester and leave Chemistry 1A/1AL for later (if you stay in the major).</p>

<p>5 on AP English language covers R&C A. 5 on AP English literature covers R&C B for L&S and business, but not engineering. 5 on both AP economics covers Economics 1 for business.</p>

<p>For AP calculus, see the <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-california-berkeley/1305840-freshman-math-faq.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-california-berkeley/1305840-freshman-math-faq.html&lt;/a&gt; .</p>

<p>I don’t think you have to take the CivE degree classes (ie Chem 1A, E7) your first semester, especially as you plan to switch out. They won’t kick you out or anything. And, as mentioned above, you need your math classes for either of your other possible majors. Sign up for classes as if you were going in as a CS/pre-Haas major, but check with your engineering advisors when (or before) you start to make sure.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that AP tests will only get you out of some of the breadth requirements. In L&S specifically, the 7-course breadth cannot be satisfied by any AP test. In engineering, you can test out of 2 lower-div humanities but must take at least 2 upper-div classes. Furthermore, my personal opinion is that AP Physics should not be used to test out of Physics 7. I 5’d the Physics C tests and knew almost nothing about the course material when I started the classes :slight_smile: But you probably had better high school teachers than I did in physics.</p>

<p>Can anyone confirm for sure that I don’t necessarily need chemistry or physics first semester if I am still in the CivE major?</p>

<p>I emailed the civil engineering advisor, but have not yet received a response. Any ideas as to who else I could email?</p>

<p>If you do stay in civil engineering (or any engineering), you really do want to take a science your first semester to avoid being behind and graduating late.</p>

<p>If you do business, then either Physics 7A or Chemistry 1A/1AL or 4A will fulfill the physical science requirement in the 7-course breadth (not needed if you do CS, since CS 61C also fulfills it, but L&S CS majors interested in patent law may need to take Physics 7A-7B or Chemistry 1A/1AL-1B or 4A-4B due to course requirements for the patent exam).</p>

<p>It sounds like you are quite undecided on what you want to study at this time. That’s fine. All the forecasting in the world isn’t going to make the path any clearer. It’ll take time. </p>

<p>Some general pointers I think you should consider now and throughout the next two years -</p>

<p>1) Take whatever lower-div math and science classes and CS classes you might need. It’ll fill up your plate, your freshman social life may take a pounding compared to the half of your friends taking 13 units of discovery courses and decals, but if you are serious about your options, it’ll keep you on track.</p>

<p>Some caveats</p>

<p>2) UGBA is kind of an all-in or all-out sort of deal. The course requirements for eligibility are quite strict, with AP credit as your only saving grace. Even then, most students still opt to take the classes anyways. Business Administration is the least flexible non-technical major at Berkeley. You have to commit to it upfront and relegate your other options to backups, a not-entirely sensible concept if your backups are science and engineering. In other words, you’ll most likely have to make a choice before you commit to classes - do I go the science and engineering route, or the pre-biz liberal arts route? If you REALLY don’t want to compromise, you can do the science and engineering prep-work now, and keep economics as a backup major for the future. </p>

<p>3) With certain degrees (ChemE in particular comes to mind), there’s simply no way to get any real sense of what the discipline entails until the 2nd or 3rd year. These fields (and they way the curriculum is designed) require time to lay the groundwork. What that means is that hard-working, dedicated students will have to march forward without any real understand of what they’re getting into until further down the road.</p>

<p>That’s not to say they don’t come out satisfied - it’s just an ambiguity that you’ll be faced with in your decision-making process. Lower-div requirements sometimes don’t correlate to upper-div content. </p>

<p>One way you can game the system is to take or sit in on an upper-div class in your major of interest your freshman year. The lectures might fly over your head, but at least you can get a glimpse of the day-to-day dynamics. Your current options are so different from each other that this is probably the fastest (and most pain-free) way to ground yourself.</p>

<p>Don’t rely on hearsay. I can’t emphasize this enough. A lot of students (even seniors and grad students) simply parrot what other people tell them, and people always exaggerate, glorify, and horrify. Few students have a sufficiently interdisciplinary background to make educated comparisons. Go and see for yourself what’s really up.</p>

<p>@SplashofScience Thankyou for the informative reply. After really agonizing over the decision I’ve decided that I really want to follow a pre-business/econ track. Ill most likely take math 53 first semester as I anticipate getting at least a 4 on the AP BC exam. My concern is that for breadths people in l and s on the prebiz track would be taking less rigorous courses while I would be taking classes like physics 7a for my breadth for a physical science. In turn, I would have a lower GPA when applying for haas. Ultimately my question is, can I take the courses I want to take my first year or are there restrictions in place as a result of my major.</p>