URM + Legacy = ?

Applying to College
1

<p>Ok, so many people tell me that being black + having legacy + good ECs/leadership = acceptance.</p>

<p>My dad attended Yale for college and he also went to Penn for grad school. (Yeah yeah, I know that legacy really only applies to what college your parents attended, but I won't believe that Penn will completely disregard this connection that I have to the school). </p>

<p>I'm picking my college list right now (my school requires that we kind of know it by now for transcript purposes/recommendations)... and I was wondering if I could think of Penn as <em>sort of</em> a matchish-reach school.</p>

<p>The reason being that at this point my list is VERY top heavy and I while I want to get accepted to top places, I don't want to be overconfident and end up getting screwed over this time next year. </p>

<p>Here's my list: Yale (legacy), Harvard, Princeton, Columbia, Brown, Penn (semi-legacy), NYU, UCLA (my dad pompously considers these last two safeties)</p>

<p>Should I have more traditional match schools?</p>

2

<p>Well I've seen your stats in the Chances section, so although usually I would say "YES" when people ask if they need more safeties, I don't think it is absolutely needed here. My only advice would be if that you plan to apply to UCLA (and are instate) you may as well check a few other boxes on the form anyways (San Diego etc) just in case. It will take a few extra seconds and a little cash, but the peace of mind is probably worth it.</p>

3

<p>Thanks for replying! </p>

<p>Actually I'm not in state for UCLA (I live in Maryland), so that's why I don't necessarily feel totally confident that I'll be an instant admit. But actually, do the "check off the boxes" rules apply for OOS applicants as well? If so I may just do that!</p>

<p>to give everyone a better frame of reference for who I am, here is my chance thread:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/450392-black-man-ivy-league.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/450392-black-man-ivy-league.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

4

<p>Please Help!</p>

5

<p>Try to choose schools you would actually like to attend. I would say that NYU is a match, not a safety. UCLA definitely is not a safety and may not even be a match if you are out of state. (Take time to look up all those who were rejected even though they were overqualified for a admittance.)</p>

<p>Also, why are you applying to Princeton, Brown, and Columbia? Brown and Columbia are totally different from Princeton. Choose your schools based on those which you would like to attend. In addition, don't merely apply to schools just so you can see if you can get in.</p>

<p>EDIT:
I did not see your actual standardized test scores.</p>

6

<p>i heard from someone close to penn that urm + legacy = legacy, and that many urm alums were upset about this. I don't think there is anything lesser in terms of legacy between grad and undergrad.</p>

7

<p>I would definitely suggest applying to more match/safety schools- and in terms of selectivity, this means don't pick out schools from the top 20 college news report!</p>

<p>I actually would not consider UCLA a safety or match- for a number of reasons. UCLA is AA blind so the fact that you are black will not matter at all to the admissions office. Also, the fact that you are from MD weighs heavily against you- out of state candidates for both CAL and UCLA need to demonstrate excellent academic prowess as well as great EC's, essays,etc. You definitely have those- but California kids with those grades and better will be chosen over you. Also, without your standarized testing scores- SAT, SAT II's, it is not possible to really judge your academic record. </p>

<p>Interestingly enough, I would say you have a GREAT shot at your dream school list- you've demonstrated academic excellence, as well as great EC's. The fact that you are an URM and a legacy aids you. As far as Penn goes, you have to check their application for the legacy section because if there is no way to indicate your father attended graduate school, it probably won't be possible- I do believe that graduate school legacies are not recognized, no matter how much you may want to believe so and hope an inkling of it may somehow translate through. Sorry! But, despite that, you have a great shot just based off of your stats. I will say that you come off a tad cocky so you may want to present yourself better. You have good scores, but many have better. Also, many have done much more with their EC's so attempt to project some modesty! =)</p>

8

<p>Definitely ad a few more math/safeties for peace of mind. While you'll probably get into at least one of the schools on your current list, the odds could just not be in your favor, it has happened before to people. Since you live in Maryland UMD college park would make sense to add, of course if you detest the school don't bother, only add safeties you actually like and wouldn't mind going too.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
Also, why are you applying to Princeton, Brown, and Columbia? Brown and Columbia are totally different from Princeton. Choose your schools based on those which you would like to attend. In addition, don't merely apply to schools just so you can see if you can get in.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>None of the colleges on my list were arbitrarily chosen.</p>

<p>Princeton: I've visited Princeton numerous times for JSA conferences and I have to say that I'm in love with the campus. I also love the undergraduate focus and I LOVE the dorm rooms. It's beautiful and I could definitely see myself going here.</p>

<p>Columbia: This was actually my first choice until very recently. I want to be an actor and being in NYC really makes sense for that. Also I love the core curriculum and if I go to Yale/Princeton I'll be doing the directed studies/HUM tracks that are very similar to the core. I'm also interning at Columbia this summer while I live in New York w/ my aunt.</p>

<p>Brown: I did a summer program here and I'm merely applying because I really had a lot of fun at the camp and can't really imagine college life without Thayer.</p>

<p>Notice also that I'm not applying to Dartmouth or Cornell. Also be aware that <em>if</em> I do decide to apply to Penn, it will only be because it makes sense.</p>

<p>
[quote]
You have good scores, but many have better. Also, many have done much more with their EC's so attempt to project some modesty! =)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah... actually that's something I'm working on. Sorrrryyyy :D!</p>

<p>
[quote]
I would definitely suggest applying to more match/safety schools- and in terms of selectivity, this means don't pick out schools from the top 20 college news report!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah, I didn't mention this but my safeties will likely be Fordham and Pace (in NYC).</p>

<p>
[quote]
Since you live in Maryland UMD college park would make sense to add

[/quote]
</p>

<p>NEVER!!!! Everyone at my school goes to college park and I must escape them! haha jk, but seriously, I'm not tryna stay in Maryland at all</p>

10

<p>Apply to as many schools as possible early. If you get in, you won't need real safeties, and it will take a load off your mind. Are you saying you can't modify your college list at all after this point? I modified mine A LOT after EA decisions...</p>

11

<p>Good chance, but not a shoe in. My friend is a URM and a legacy at Princeton, he got rejected despite his 2100 SAT and high GPA. Although he had his ECs, he didn't do much volunteer work. </p>

<p>With that said, don't expect an acceptance, but certainly don't count it out either.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
Good chance, but not a shoe in. My friend is a URM and a legacy at Princeton, he got rejected despite his 2100 SAT and high GPA. Although he had his ECs, he didn't do much volunteer work.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Thank you! This is really all I needed to hear.</p>

13

<p>it's shoo in, not shoe in. no shoes :)</p>

<p>hmm idk if you would get into NYU or UCLA, but definitely want to look into Harvard or Princeton as safeties. Good luck!</p>

14

<p>You need some real safety schools that you can afford and would happily go to if need be.</p>

<p>I know a URM who was a Harvard legacy whose parent was a very active alum who was deferred and then put on the waitlist, and never taken off the waitlist. The person had acceptable for Harvard stats, and was state ranked in an academic-related EC, so don't assume that legacy/URM/stats will guarantee your admission. </p>

<p>Given that college admissions next year is expected to be more competitive than this competitive year, don't consider UCLA and NYU as your safeties.</p>

15

<p>eating food, if your stats are legitimate (I've been in higher education for nearly 30 + years, have decades of experience dealing with Black students of all types and your stats seem somewhat unbelievable actually unless you're African or West Indian or first generation). These kinds of stats for a Black american male are quite extraordinary actually. At any rate, if you are legit, you need to work on your attitude. You come across extremely arrogant and conceited. Just because your Dad went to Yale doesn't automatically mean anything (although in this case, your race may give you an edge). There are MANY legacies at these places. What admissions offices look at is the "quality" of the legacy. Is your Dad a devoted alum. Does he give his money and time to Yale or simply boast that he's a Yale alum. I was on a fellowship selection committee this past year and I had a young African American woman very similar to you who was a student at the U of Chicago. She was EXTREMELY arrogant and self-impressed. She seemed to think that she was the only Black student who had ever gone to the U of Chicago. She was not selected for the fellowship. She was such a turnoff. So, you need to "calm down" as my daughter would say and not think that you're all that. You'll. of course, get into many top schools (again if in fact your stats are true which I have my serious doubts).</p>

16

<p>I'm sorry, Narcissa but did you say to look into Harvard and Princeton as safeties?</p>

<p>...I'm pretty sure you meant something else, because NO ONE should call those school safeties- irregardless of perfect scores, national EC's, URM or legacy......</p>

17

<p>Wait, first of all I'm actually not that arrogant of a person (haha, sort of ironic to say). Really, the whole purpose of this thread was to AVOID arrogance. I simply wanted to know whether I should consider more safeties; if I were more arrogant, I wouldn't be taking the time to look into more safeties at all. I realize that my chances of getting into any of the schools on my list are slim, but really it's my father who believes that my chances are greater than they probably are. I made this thread to investigate whether I was right or whether he was right.</p>

<p>
[quote]
your stats seem somewhat unbelievable actually unless you're African or West Indian or first generation

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ummm.. My maternal grandparents/great-grandparents are from Tennessee - we're definitely slave descended. Maternal Grandmother now lives in inner-city DC. My dad (from compton, LA) is actually half-Jamaican (my Jamaican paternal grandmother dropped out of school in 6th grade), and his father and his family is also from Georgia... thus also slave descendant. </p>

<p>Why do you doubt that I could achieve things without being West Indian or African? I would be inclined to think that's really obtuse of you, but I'm actually doing a research paper on Affirmative Action in College Admissions and I'm aware of the fact that at many upper echelon institutions, the majority of the Black population are non slave-descendants. Despite my knowledge of this fact, I still find that your making that generalizations and your expressions of disbelief are in bad taste</p>

18

<p>No, not obtuse - the research indicates that the highest scoring African American males are either of African descent, West Indian descent or bi-racial. So, if you're legit, then you're quite extraordinary. I stand corrected and I apologize if in fact all that you list is true. Admissions is very quirky. Even Black folks who in the past thought they were shoo ins, aren't. I know a very prominent African American student with highly accomplished parents and grandparents on both sides who didn't get into Stanford. This young lady was highly competitive. She got into other good schools but the point is, nothing is a guarantee even with the top stats. It's about putting together a class. From my reading, your posts did come across a bite off-putting, particularly when you started talking about your "safties". Even 2nd tired colleges are no longer safties. As another poster noted, next year will be the most competitive ever.</p>

19

<p>it was sarcasm lol</p>

20

<p>
[quote]
NYU, UCLA (my dad pompously considers these last two safeties)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>please note that it is my DAD and not me who considers NYU and UCLA to be safeties. NOT ME NOT ME!!</p>

<p>And to his credit, I think he's basing my chances off of how easy it may have been for him in the 80s when he went to school. It was much easier back then and also, he lived in California, so for him getting into UCLA was probably a breeze.</p>