<p>To admisssionsdan:</p>
<p>Does JHU really care about the USN rankings? say this from a general JHU point of view. Also, JH Hospital and Medical school boast about their ranking as being the best hospital and 2nd med school in the country (they even have the USN 'official' badge).</p>
<p>Institutions care about rankings - the question is to what degree do they care? Are they going to fudge their numbers (UPenn, WashU) to increase their ranking? </p>
<p>Hopkins and others (Emory, NYU etc) are not a number-fudgin group because that is unethical and there are some genuinely good schools, such as Hopkins, Rice and others that don't need to use US News and World Report to essentially ** validate ** the quality of the institution. I mean really, do we ** actually ** believe that Chicago is now better than it was last year? Of course not. Will they benefit from this increase? Maybe a little - but the difference will be marginal and ** in the end student satisfaction with their undergraduate institution is the number #1 indicator and US News has no way of tracking that ** not even through alumni donations. Speaking to students and alums is WAY more valuable than reading good ol' USNWR.</p>
<p>AdmissionsDan: I utterly subscribe to your opinion about newsweek. But ask your self this, just our of curiosity, if JHU was ranked #1 on the USNWR would you have maintained the same claim? You wonder why i would ask, but i am certain if you asked a Harvard student if the list was correct(knowing well his school is ranked first) im certain he would have agreed so.</p>
<p>"Wow. Hopkins in really slipping. And they apparently don't even care. A once fine institution indifferently sliding down the slope towards academic mediocrity.
Keep up the "the ratings mean nothing" attitude and the slide will continue."</p>
<p>Replace "Hopkins" with "Chicago" and this could be found almost verbatim on the Chicago boards within the last couple of months. People think any school in the 10-15 range is slipping. JHU is not slipping. It's peer assessment score is sky-high and it's name recognition is huge. If anything JHU's relative quality will rise as apps max out towards 2009. Also, there's a major USNews points drop-off after JHU, so I don't see it going down. Mediocrity is a heck of a ways below a rank of 16 and peer assessment of 4.6. I predict that it's rank will go up vis-a-vis Brown next year as non-ivies benefit disproportionally from the larger general applicant pool.</p>
<p>I have no association with JHU, btw. Just my two cents.</p>
<p>Abethebutcher:</p>
<p>Harvard is #2 this year, actually.</p>
<p>spe07, did you have trouble finding engineering internships this summer causing you to waste time sounding like a bitter Hopkins student? Whatever, seriously, people here don't care so much about rankings. And no, Hopkins is not declining. Its more of a result of ties as in the case of upenn displacing 3 spots in similar fashion to Hopkins. Also, its dropped to 16th, but it increased last year to 13th so how can you say it is already declining into mediocrity from a single year's decrease? (I haven't checked years beyond but i'm sure Hopkins has stayed in this range) Lastly, last year was one of the worst in JHU's history for selectivity as it accepted 35% due to 2 deaths on campus and wanted to account for anticipated poor yield but had the best selectivity this year along with improved faculty/student ratio resulting in a probable jump next year. Finally, schools like WUSTL gamed the rankings as shown in its increases in the past through mass mailings and gaming its selectivity. Did you know Hopkins DID NOT send a representative to a US News conference discussing methodology changes after US News had a major methodology change despite other universities doing the opposite? What admissionsdaniel says is true and JHU stands by it. It could game the rankings if it wanted to but JHU doesn't care and rightfully so. For the people in this thread who all of a sudden have declared hopkins to be slipping due to a SINGLE drop in what many argue to be a baseless ranking, stay the hell out of Hopkins. We don't need superficial people like you, as harsh as that may sound.</p>
<p>I don't think Hopkins is "slipping" Blah 2009. BUT this "holier than thou" attitude that we don't care about these rankings is bull and plain stupid. </p>
<p>We need people--and especially the public who are the fickle rankings followers--to see Hopkins as a top 20 or top 10 university! As students that will eventually be alums-- I need the value of my degree to rise not fall. Unfortunately part of the perceived value of my degree will translate from a "popular ranking" such as US News</p>
<p>Thank god our peer ranking stays high. I am happy about this. These are people in the know. But really, I'm not going to be hired out of school by a College Dean...It's going to be someone who compares me to ivy league graduates and might just say -- I want someone that went to a top 10 school-- Should I not want to work with them because they are that "superficial?" HA -- Lets get real.</p>
<p>I dont want Hopkins to play the numbers game and get scoffed at like WUSTL--bless their heart. BUT to be mindful of the numbers and translate them to all areas of the University. Dr. Brody should be continuing to pound the Financial Development people to get those Alumn contributions up (a higher "ranking" would help this, even if nominally, by the way)</p>
<p>The Financial Resources and Faculty Resource ranks should be looked at seriously. Is Hopkins not reporting correctly on this one?-- or are other or most schools reporting differenty albeit fairly?--maybe the ones that attended that went to that US News conference? :) and are moving up in the rankings?</p>
<p>I agree with Blah.. most likely Hopkins will go up and the 35% admission rate hurt us this year. But I don't agree that people that look at rankings and consider them important are "superficial"</p>
<p>You misinterpret a lot of what I was trying to convey, probably my fault so I'll clarify.</p>
<p>First, I am glad that we didn't send a rep to USNews and even happier that Hopkins doesn't change its policies to yield a "false" ranking. I take great pride in my school and all that it has done and will continue to support its actions. And blah you are right, students at the school itself and faculty aren't too concerned about the rankings. But that doesn't mean I haven't heard them being sited (particularly from faculty) over and over again. </p>
<p>My problem with what has been said is this "we don't care attitude", because the school and the world cares a lot about these rankings. If the school really didn't care then it would be fine if our ranking dropped to 150, and the beloved med school fell to the third tier. If the school honestly didn't care, why would it matter?</p>
<p>And the reason that it would matter is because whether you want to believe it or not these rankings are some form of indirect reference as to how well your school is doing from an academic standpoint. In the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter that we slipped 3 spots because next year it will probably go up 1 or 2 or stay the same or something, but it's the mentallity of complaceceny that concerns me. What if it goes down 3 more next year? And the year after? And so on and so forth, when is it actually a problem? Or would it be fine if in 20 years we were down ranked with the third tier schools? I just find it hard to believe that if a decline in rankings of this magnitude were to happen over the next 2 years that someone in the administration wouldn't be shaking their head asking what just happened?</p>
<p>These rankings are without a doubt flawed. Is Chicago really that much better this year? There are countless examples of these, but they do hold some merit in several communities and industries in the world. I have heard recruiters site these rankings in terms of their hiring policies as well as faculty speak of them in regards to grad school admissions. They are important in today's society, and I really hope that Hopkins respects that fact. I just want them to be mindful of what goes on here, if we go up 10 spots I want them to say, what went well, lets keep it rolling, and if its down 10 what can we do to improve, and if its down 3 like in this case, a simple is this at all relevant or is this just the indigestion of the system bubbling up (which I think is the case). </p>
<p>All I'm asking is for Hopkins to stop "not caring" about these rankings, stop taking the elitest attitude that we are above caring about it. I really think this is already the case and there is nothing to worry about.</p>
<p>While people look at the rankings, everyone knows the reputation of a school regardless. UVA, Georgetown and Cal Berkeley-all top schools, all ranked 23 or higher. Does that hurt you when you apply for a job? Absolutely not, and all of these schools enjoy a large applicant pool. Furthermore, Cal is ranked a 4.8, the second highest on the peer review.</p>
<p>4.7 tied for sixth now</p>
<p>admissions daniel, what source do recommend over USNWR? Or are you just saying that in general, rankings shouldn't be taken so seriously?</p>
<p>I know many of you are eagerly awaiting (ha ha ha) my responses to the discussion on this thread, and do know I will be commenting in the future. I am actually putting all my thoughts together for a response to this CC debate but also for my next Hopkins Insider column. </p>
<p>Feel free to keep assuming what I will say...but if you want to read some of my additional thoughts on rankings from the past, check out this old thread:</p>
<p>
[quote]
We need people--and especially the public who are the fickle rankings followers--to see Hopkins as a top 20 or top 10 university! As students that will eventually be alums-- I need the value of my degree to rise not fall.
[/quote]
[quote]
It could game the rankings if it wanted to but JHU doesn't care and rightfully so. For the people in this thread who all of a sudden have declared hopkins to be slipping due to a SINGLE drop in what many argue to be a baseless ranking, stay the hell out of Hopkins.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You guys need to think over your perspective on the academic world... No, scratch that, on life.</p>
<p>Palmbeach. Your degree is valued, indeed, by rankings. But what you care to neglect is the fact that what matters more than a damn ranking is the quality of education you recieved. There are statistics out there to show that WHAT YOU LEARN contributes more to your success in life than a USNEWS RANKING. If you think a marginal number is going to grant you happiness and achievement, you really have things backwards.</p>
<p>Blah2009, you make some good points. But you also neglect the fact that a school identifies itself through its student body. It would do Hopkins some good to broaden its applicant pool, much like WUSTL does, so that it has more opportunity to select the kind of students it wants. If JHU ends up having a very narrow group of kids applying, it could easily be missing out on some of the most well-suited people to attend itself.</p>
<p>In general guys, Goethe made a good point. True happiness springs from moderation. With that, so does true success. Hopkins cares about the rankings, but it doesn't allow the rankings to dictate how it governs itself. I respect this aspect of JHU, and that's partially why I'm going. And that's why you should go too. This university is a unique fish in a large pond slowly becoming universally obsessed with quantification.</p>
<p>I'm a current Hopkins student and I've spent a lot of time talking to college counselors and students who will be applying to college in the future (I wrote a magazine column on the issue). While I think it's important that people don't take rankings too seriously (for example, what if someone had chosen WashU over Chicago because of the rankings--they'd be a bit disappointed now--but when it comes to a 30 or 40 difference in rankings perhaps it does matter). Still, most kids would see one school ranked 16, and one ranked 14, and choose the one that's higher... it's simple psychology and you can ask any Hopkins psych professor who will tell you at the amazing influence this has.</p>
<p>To not even send a rep. to their meetings, I think, is a mistake. It will only take minimal effort to do what Chicago did -- ensure you are reporting your stats in the best way possible -- and then get a much higher ranking, which will lead to a better selection pool for you in the future.</p>
<p>While you may say you do not care, many alumni care, many students care, many parents care, and many prospectives care. I agree with you completely that these scores are kind of ridiculous and it would be great if they didn't matter. But they do, so perhaps look into improving them?</p>
<p>hear, hear.</p>
<p>JHU was also rated for having the best research projects for undergrads and the best BME program in the country.</p>