<p>
Of course not! All elite colleges should strive to have 50% acceptance rates and student bodies who are barely as strong as 2nd tier private schools.</p>
<p>According to Collegeboard,</p>
<p>Northeastern= ACT Composite: 27-31
Michigan= ACT Composite: 27-31
Boston University= ACT Composite: 26-30</p>
<p>@lesdiables “student bodies who are barely as strong as 2nd tier private schools”…when did we start talking about Dook?</p>
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</p>
<p>Exactly! Like I was saying, 80’s Chicago. But with more Love. and Harder Core.</p>
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I’m sure the corporate elite in Turkey are aware of far more universities than that. Alex, you might not know this since you only lived and worked in the States for a decade or so but EVERYONE here knows or is interested in knowing where every famous football, basketball and baseball player went to college. Part of having school pride is knowing which famous pro athletes went to your school and how the alumni list of athletes stacks up to other universities.</p>
<p>All my friends that follow the Premier League and Serie A know where the management of their favorite and rival teams went to uni.</p>
<p>Besides, I think we should hold the word of a native Turk who is immersed in Turkish society in higher regard than a businessman like you who is merely interested in cross-cultural comparisons unless he/she is a ■■■■■, which may be the case.</p>
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</p>
<p>soooo? Even you are right, what that has any thing to do with Chicago’s ranking today? I am sure when Chicago started in 1890’s with 500+ students, it was not even ranked, whereas HPY and Northwestern have already established more than 50 years prior(providing there was such ranking thing existed).</p>
<p>lesdiablesbles, do you understand that the more you argue about Duke’s superiority (which you shouldn’t even argue about because it needs none) and the more you put down UMichigan, which is one of America’s most valuable universities, and many other fine institutions by calling them 2nd tier, the more you are making yourself appear like a fool and giving Duke a bad name here on CC?</p>
<p>Why do you continue to embarrass yourself and Duke? Actually, why don’t we have a poll on CC: “Rate lesdiablesbleus’s usefulness on CC on a scale of 1 (worst) to 10(best)” I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re average turns out to be -2.</p>
<p>does anyone think UMiami may gain any spots?</p>
<p>I’m starting to like you TheSaiyans666. It must be that new influx of brilliant minds and faculty that you’ve been experiencing in the engineering college at MIT. Whatever the case may be, I agree with most of what you say.</p>
<p>'Of course, Novi, it is a well known fact that most Deans of Admissions who work at highly selective schools are striving to attain or maintain an admission ratio of 50% and are usually hoping -or praying-- for a yield of 40%."</p>
<p>So what do you expect Michigan to do xiggi? Tell applicants that we’re going to cut down the class size so we can improve our eliteness with the posters at CC?</p>
<p>rjkkofnovi, thanks! I guess it took a while to reach a mutual understanding. I didn’t like UMich for personal reasons (Mother getting jumped there as one) but I suppose you misunderstood me with lesdiablesbles, who didn’t consider UMich as an elite. </p>
<p>I’ve always been this way–if anything, my experience at Duke changed the way I saw life. Not all the credit goes to MIT. :)</p>
<p>^^^Ann Arbor is for the most part a very safe medium sized city. That a family member haed a problem is an anomoly and shouldn’t be held against the university or the city.</p>
<p>I was a kid, I didn’t have it thought through rationally. Even if I can now, I still feel uncomfortable at the thought of Michigan. Not only that, but I visited during the winters back then. I remember the grueling snow and how I kept crying and car getting stuck…the whole experience was terrible.</p>
<p>As for now, I’d like to think I have no reason to go to there. But nothing against the academic quality of the university, I assure you.</p>
<p>“So what do you expect Michigan to do xiggi? Tell applicants that we’re going to cut down the class size so we can improve our eliteness with the posters at CC?”</p>
<p>novi, although I agree that Michigan’s reluctance to change its ways for the sake of rankings is a source of pride, aiming for a class of 6,500 is unacceptable. Michigan should never accept more than 12,500 applicants, and with an applicant pool of 31,500 this year, the University should not have had an acceptance rate higher than 40%. Michigan could easily raise its OOS population from 35% to 45% and drop its incoming class size from 6,500 to 5,000 without harming its cash flow while at the same time, improve its ability to handle its students’ needs. If Michigan has one achilles heel, it is its stubborn adherence to its outdated admissions philosophy. That in of itself does not alter the fact that Michigan is an incredible university, but it certainly does nothing to enhance its reputation.</p>
<p>
I don’t really argue about Duke’s superiority or put down UMichigan or any other good public school unprovoked. You might be new to this site but rjkofnovi has repeatedly made condescending remarks about the Pratt School of Engineering, which you yourself are a proud graduate of, and Duke as a whole multiple times. Please refer to the repeated use of “Dookies” by rjk and other posters on this site. I, for one, will not sit back and tolerate such nonsense. Notice how rjkofnovi brings Duke into almost discussion on this site without cause and proceeds to bash it relentlessy implicitly and explicitly whenever he gets a chance.</p>
<p>I think Michigan as a whole is an elite school. It’s hard to top Michigan Law, Michigan Med or its graduate Psychology and Kinesiology programs. At the undergraduate level however, many Michigan classes are extremely large, the student body isn’t particularly bright, classes are almost never taught by full-fledged professors but rather GSIs and doctoral students as the poster Xiggi has proven in the past and the research opportunities it provides pale in comparison to elite privates.</p>
<p>It is frankly irresponsible on our part to place our beloved Duke, which features such incredible hands-on research opportunities, world-class study abroad programs and unique service initiatives through programs like DukeEngage on the same level as schools like Wisconsin or Illinois or Michigan or whatever for undergrad.</p>
<p>Duke is the #5 producer of fellowship winners in the country behind HYPS.
[scholars[/url</a>]</p>
<p>Duke is the #30 producer of science and engineering doctorates per capita.
[url=<a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/]nsf.gov”>Archive Goodbye | NCSES | NSF]nsf.gov</a> - SRS Baccalaureate Origins of S&E Doctorate Recipients - US National Science Foundation (NSF)](<a href=“http://consider.k-state.edu/scholars/index.htm]scholars[/url”>http://consider.k-state.edu/scholars/index.htm)</p>
<p>It is important that we not mislead impressionable high schoolers here on CC to believe that two schools that are actually worlds apart in the quality of scholarship belong on the same level.</p>
<p>Then both of you should just stop this dumb nonsense. Geez this is so sickening. If someone bashes your school of choice, then CALMLY reply and back them up with links. PERIOD. </p>
<p>If I were the Super Moderator, I would’ve banned both you immature jerks who have set terrible examples of yourselves and the schools you both represt, lesdiablesbles and rjkofnovi.</p>
<p>I don’t normally get mad. I’m usually a cool guy. I see CC as a place to help young high school students in the choice of colleges. To me, both of you and others like MyOpinion and PABank and any of the “crazed Dookies” are wrenches to what I, Alexandre, and other sensible Senior members and Super Mods believe.</p>
<p>As always LDB, your post is filled with incorrect information.</p>
<p>“I don’t really argue about Duke’s superiority or put down UMichigan or any other good public school unprovoked. You might be new to this site but rjkofnovi has repeatedly made condescending remarks about the Pratt School of Engineering, which you yourself are a proud graduate of, and Duke as a whole multiple times. Please refer to the repeated use of “Dookies” by rjk and other posters on this site. I, for one, will not sit back and tolerate such nonsense. Notice how rjkofnovi brings Duke into almost discussion on this site without cause and proceeds to bash it relentlessy implicitly and explicitly whenever he gets a chance.”</p>
<p>LDB, you started by posting dozens of insulting comments about Michigan on the Michigan forum. Those were largely unprovoked. Of course, you were not the first Duke student to do so. In fact, you come from a long line of such posters, including ring<em>of</em>fire before you. RJK only started fighting back well after you were attacking Michigan. That does not entirely excuse his behavior, but he is mild compared to you. At least RJK respects Duke as an academic institution and refers to it as an elite. Also, I do not see how calling Duke students “Dookies” is insulting. How is it different from calling Michigan students “Wolvies”! </p>
<p>"I think Michigan as a whole is an elite school. It’s hard to top Michigan Law, Michigan Med or its graduate Psychology and Kinesiology programs. "</p>
<p>So Michigan’s undergraduate Engineering and Business programs are not elite? Michigan smaller departments, such as Chemistry, Classics, Mathematics, Philosophy, Physics etc…, which have undergraduate to faculty ratios of 3:1 or 4:1 and where virtually all classes have fewer than 30 students are not elite? </p>
<p>“At the undergraduate level however, many Michigan classes are extremely large,”</p>
<p>“Many” would not be an accurate term. “Some” classes are very large, but those types of classes tend to be large at most universities. We’re talking about entry-level courses in very popular subjects such as Biology (premeds), Chemistry (again, premeds), Economics, Political Science and Psychology). Some private universities manage to mask larger classes by having the same professor teach two or three sections, but that faculty member is still responsible for the same number of undergrads. On average, classes at Michigan are only marginally larger than classes at private universities. In 2004, the arithmetic mean class size at Princeton was 17 compared to 27 at Michigan. I would estimate that the average class size at most private elites hovers around 20.</p>
<p>“…the student body isn’t particularly bright,”</p>
<p>It is hard to compare student bodies, so I will not bother debating this point with you. Statistically speaking, the top 50% of Michigan’s student body matches the top 75% of the student body at schools such as Brown, Cornell, Chicago etc… There is obviously a drop in quality, but it is not nearly as great as you claim.</p>
<p>“…classes are almost never taught by full-fledged professors but rather GSIs and doctoral students as the poster Xiggi has proven in the past…”</p>
<p>That is a very misleading comment. At Michigan, 97% of classes are tought by full-fledged professors, so I am not sure how you can make such a claim. </p>
<p>[Information</a> About Graduate Student Instructors at the University of Michigan](<a href=“http://www.vpcomm.umich.edu/gsi-sa/teach.html]Information”>http://www.vpcomm.umich.edu/gsi-sa/teach.html)</p>
<p>“…and the research opportunities it provides pale in comparison to elite privates.”</p>
<p>Michigan’s Research Community and UROP programs are among the best in the nation. Almost 100% of students who request research experience are given the chance to participate, often on a one-on-one basis with leading faculty.</p>
<p>“Duke is the #5 producer of fellowship winners in the country behind HYPS.”</p>
<p>Yes, and KSU is #6. How convenient that this particular report was developped by KSU and leaves out the Fullbright scholarship.</p>
<p>“It is important that we not mislead impressionable high schoolers here on CC to believe that two schools that are actually worlds apart in the quality of scholarship belong on the same level.”</p>
<p>What is misleading is to claim that those two schools are worlds apart in quality of scholarship. They are different, but in terms of quality, both are excellent and deserve respect.</p>
<p>PA of Michigan at USNWR fell down to Duke’s level this past year. They are both at 4.4 now. I am so ashamed…</p>
<p>rjkofnovi, Duke’s PA in 2007 was 4.5 and Michigan’s was 4.4! hehe! Over the last 10 years or so, Duke, Michigan and Penn have had roughly identical PA scores, hovering between 4.4 and 4.5. Chicago, Columbia, Cornell and JHU have had slightly higher PAs (4.5-4.6) and Brown, Dartmouth, Northwestern and UVA slightly lower PAs (4.3-4.4). The PA changes very little over time.</p>
<p>Once again, Sarcasm is lost here on CC…:-/</p>
<p>“rjkofnovi, Duke’s PA in 2007 was 4.5 and Michigan’s was 4.4! hehe! Over the last 10 years or so, Duke, Michigan and Penn have had roughly identical PA scores, hovering between 4.4 and 4.5. Chicago, Columbia, Cornell and JHU have had slightly higher PAs (4.5-4.6) and Brown, Dartmouth, Northwestern and UVA slightly lower PAs (4.3-4.4). The PA changes very little over time.”</p>
<p>Which just goes to prove, once again, that all of these schools are academic peers. Which is all I have said in many, many posts. It’s only certain posters here, who feel that no large public universities are worthy of being considered comparable at all to the company of certain smaller private schools, that really gets my goat.</p>