Us news rankings 2011

College Search & Selection
101

<p>

Alex,
Michigan has spent more than $2.5 billions in the last few years on new facilities … certainly a lot more since you graduated.</p>

<p>“Nine major buildings have been completed recently or are under construction, with five more prepared to break ground. Coupled with the $108 million purchase of the 30-building, 174-acre former research site of Pfizer Inc., it’s one of the biggest building booms in school history, totaling more than $1.7 billion and adding or renovating 17 million square feet.” … and that’s only for the last couple years.</p>

102

<p>hawkette, my criteria is simple. I expect to choose from the deepest and broadest curriculum possible and to be taught by the most advanced faculty in the highest ranked departments in the most cutting edge buildings.</p>

103

<p>That’s simple?? Really? </p>

<p>How do you measure it? How do you compare it to other places?</p>

104

<p>Again, really simple hawkette. Faculty and department quality ismeasured by several sources, including the USNWR and NRC. According to those measures, Michigan’s faculty and departments are ranked among the top 10, arguably even higher. </p>

<p>I have checked course availlability and curriculae at several top universities and have carefully observed the depth and breadth of their academic offerings (in subjects I care about anyway, such as Economics, History, Mathematics, Physics and Political Science). Few, if any university, have a wealthier selection of courses.</p>

<p>As far as the facilities go, Michigan is generally recognized for having some of the most advanced Engineering, Business and Medical buildings in the world, and is also known for having one of the largest university libraries on Earth.</p>

105

<p>My criteria:</p>

<ol>
<li>Cost (Return on Investment is important).</li>
<li>Academic reputation in my field of interest (however, interests may change so it would be nice to be enrolled in a college with broad academic breadth and depth).</li>
<li>Environment (I prefer larger, more dynamic environments)</li>
</ol>

106

<p>I go to Emory, and I’m pretty sure we’ll be going down (I’d say from 17 to 19-22). Our applications decreased for undergraduate class of 2013 and for 2014. Plus SATs/ACTs for Emory were slightly lower for class of 2013. Class of 2014 saw another decline, but somehow their SATs surpassed those of my class (2012), which saw the largest applicant pool at Emory. 2014 also had very slightly lower admit rate than 2013. Kind of wierd. But since the rankings will reflect 2013, my opinion stands. However, I think the actual quality of the school is increasing. I just don’t think the rankings will reflect such a thing. I think they mainly care about the incoming students, not the strides the U has been making to better itself even during a bad economy, but oh well. At some peers, I don’t know if the U is actually changing that much, perhaps the student body is (as in their SATs are getting higher), but the environment/facilities/general quality of education may not be changing as much. We seem to be having trouble increasing the size and quality of the applicant pool, but no problem improving all of the other things related to the University. Probably due to poor marketing. Sucks being a newb among “prestigious” institutions. We apparently have a lot to learn and a long way to go in terms of maintaining a high USNW ranking.</p>

107

<p>alex,
Ok, so you like schools that can offer a lot of courses. Pretty obvious that a school with an enrollment of 26,000+ undergrads like U Michigan is going to offer more courses than a school of similar selectivity like Boston College which has 9000 undergrads or Tulane which has fewer than 7000. But is more courses really a sign of quality? Also, do you give any consideration to the differences in classroom teaching that goes on at these places and how the faculty cultures/priorities may differ? </p>

<p>As for your statement about checking availability and curriculae, I think it’s a mighty stretch to think that you have even a slight idea of what’s available at more than even a few schools and how the instruction for those compares at various colleges. If you can explain how you do this and how large your sample is and what schools you’re considering, maybe I can be persuaded. But I doubt it.</p>

<p>Re facilities, bigger is certainly not always better. Heck, using that criteria would lead us only to the largest schools, eg, U Texas, Texas A&M, Ohio State, etc. They have some pretty impressive buildings too. Plus, why should I care how big the medical school is if I’m an English major? Or how impressive the engineering facilities might be if I’m studying Psychology? </p>

<p>I’m not disputing that your college has a lot of good facilities and does lots of research. But when I look at colleges, I care about what the student is going to experience. My interest is bottom up and if the student is not getting the attention that he/she needs and is paying for, then all the facilities and all the renowned faculty in the world aren’t worth a hill of beans. </p>

<p>It’s not that a student can’t have a good experience at your school. It’s that the education is more accessible and higher touch in many other places. Those other places usually have an environment of stronger students learning in smaller classes from teachers who have undergraduate education as a major priority, all of which is supported by an institution that commits important resources to support its undergrads.</p>

108

<p>Not more courses, hawkette. More distinguished academic programs.</p>

<p>NRC Non-zero Score Averages:
Michigan, 7.24
Boston College, NR
Tulane, NR</p>

<p>**Faculty Achievement:</p>

<h1>NAE and NAS Members**</h1>

<p>Michigan, 44
Boston College, 0
Tulane, 1</p>

<p>Those are some objective measures you can hang your hat on…
If you have some other objective data pertaining to the faculty quality of these schools, feel free to add that.</p>

<p>And if you want per capita data, 0 divided by any number is still zero.</p>

109

<p>ucb,
Re your earlier comment about getting a good value for your college dollars, there are at least two sources that try to measure this: USNWR and Kiplingers.</p>

<p>USNWR does a combined analysis & bases their list on a combination of Quality/Price, % of students receiving need-based aid, and the average discount. Here is their Top 25:</p>

<p>USNWR Best Value , College</p>

<p>1 , Harvard
2 , Yale
3 , Princeton
4 , Stanford
5 , MIT
6 , Columbia
7 , Dartmouth
8 , Caltech
9 , Duke
10 , U Penn
11 , U Chicago
12 , Rice
13 , Brown
14 , U NORTH CAROLINA
15 , Cornell
16 , Vanderbilt
17 , SUNY-ENVI SCI
18 , Johns Hopkins
19 , Wash U
20 , Northwestern
21 , NC STATE
22 , Notre Dame
23 , U Virginia
24 , Georgetown
25 , Lehigh</p>

<pre><code> Neither UC Berkeley nor U Michigan placed in the Top 50
</code></pre>

<p>Kiplinger’s breaks it out by public colleges and private colleges. Among public colleges, here is the Top 25 as measured by their value to OOS students:</p>

<p>Kiplinger for OOS , Public University</p>

<p>1 , SUNY Binghampton
2 , SUNY Geneseo
3 , UNC Chapel Hill
4 , U Florida
5 , College of New Jersey
6 , W&M
7 , U Minnesota
8 , UCSD
9 , NC State
10 , Truman State
11 , U Maryland
12 , UC Berkeley
13 , U Virginia
14 , UCLA
15 , U Wisconsin
16 , Appalachian State
17 , U Delaware
18 , Stony Brook
19 , U Pittsburgh
20 , Ramapo
21 , U Georgia
22 , U Washington
23 , Virginia Tech
24 , U Michigan
25 , UNC Wilmington</p>

110

<p>^ No complaint from me about that top value list. However, probably much to your chagrin, the top spots are all dominated by the usual suspects.</p>

111

<p>"Ok, so you like schools that can offer a lot of courses. Pretty obvious that a school with an enrollment of 26,000+ undergrads like U Michigan is going to offer more courses than a school of similar selectivity like Boston College which has 9000 undergrads or Tulane which has fewer than 7000. But is more courses really a sign of quality? Also, do you give any consideration to the differences in classroom teaching that goes on at these places and how the faculty cultures/priorities may differ? "</p>

<p>Hawkette, quantity without quality means very little. Like I said, it is the breadth AND depth of academic offerings that I look for. Not merely quantity but content as well.</p>

<p>“As for your statement about checking availability and curriculae, I think it’s a mighty stretch to think that you have even a slight idea of what’s available at more than even a few schools and how the instruction for those compares at various colleges. If you can explain how you do this and how large your sample is and what schools you’re considering, maybe I can be persuaded. But I doubt it.”</p>

<p>I have actually researched course availlability and offerings over a period of 2 academic years at over 50 top universities and LACs.</p>

<p>“Re facilities, bigger is certainly not always better. Heck, using that criteria would lead us only to the largest schools, eg, U Texas, Texas A&M, Ohio State, etc. They have some pretty impressive buildings too. Plus, why should I care how big the medical school is if I’m an English major? Or how impressive the engineering facilities might be if I’m studying Psychology?”</p>

<p>I was not referring to size hawkette. Engineering and Business majors have access to some of the most advanced academic facilities in the nation. And it is not just Engineering and Business. Chemistry, Physics, English, History, Political Science, Psychology etc… are all housed in excellent edifices. And the libraries at Michigan are also incredible.</p>

<p>“I’m not disputing that your college has a lot of good facilities and does lots of research. But when I look at colleges, I care about what the student is going to experience. My interest is bottom up and if the student is not getting the attention that he/she needs and is paying for, then all the facilities and all the renowned faculty in the world aren’t worth a hill of beans.”</p>

<p>I agree, except at Michigan, virtually all faculty and facilities are open to all students, undergraduate and graduate.</p>

<p>“It’s not that a student can’t have a good experience at your school. It’s that the education is more accessible and higher touch in many other places. Those other places usually have an environment of stronger students learning in smaller classes from teachers who have undergraduate education as a major priority, all of which is supported by an institution that commits important resources to support its undergrads.”</p>

<p>I don’t see it that way hawkette. I never had any trouble making my experience extremely personal and “high touch” and things have only gotten better in recent years.</p>

<p>And none of this addresses my most important criteria…quality of faculty and departments. Like I said, in this regard, Michigan’s status as a top 10 univesity is well documented.</p>

<p>Hawkette, there is no right or wrong here. Very little separates the very best universities, and how a university ranks depends entirely on one’s point of view.</p>

112

<p>

</p>

<p>Nine out of the top ten are either HYPSMC or non-HYP Ivies. Thanks for proving my point. You’ve been such a helpful hawkette!!</p>

113

<p>I’ve been following with interest the on-going dialogue among hawkette, UCBChemEGrad, and Alexandre on this thread. I only wonder where these guys (or girls) find the time during the day to assemble and post their extensive research and opinions. Does anybody on this board have a job? lol.</p>

<p>However, I’m also wondering whether anyone else thinks that the relatively new poster titled “johnnybegood” is actually “JohnAdams12” using a new name? There is a clear and obvious similarity in their posting styles and use of mocking, insulting language. If this suspicion is correct, watch for further ■■■■■-like postings to emerge from “johnnybegood” in the near future.</p>

114

<p>Please do not insult me. Thanks.</p>

115

<p>It will be easy to tell because eventually he won’t be able to hide the blatant elitist shilling on behalf of HYPSM.</p>

116

<p>

</p>

<p>You mean something like your “blatant elitist shilling on behalf of” Domer U?</p>

117

<p>You’re right justthefacts. Its him. Wow, creating alternate identities so he can ■■■■■ about the Ivies even more than the several thousand posts he has already posted. By the way, I am not hiding anything, nor have I created multiple identities for myself (anticipating saying something that will get you banned?)</p>

118

<p>@just<em>the</em>facts: Okay, so now I know to whom you’re referring. If I were he, would I ever remotely suggest that the following school may have the “most obnoxious student body?”</p>

<p>

</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/933263-most-obnoxious-student-body.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/933263-most-obnoxious-student-body.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>So next time do a little bit more research before you try to play amateur detective. Oh, by the way, does this count as a “■■■■■-like posting?”</p>

119

<p>Nice attempt at trying to throw us off the track by feigning criticism of your alma mater. Didn’t work though.</p>

120

<p>Believe what you want. It makes no difference to me one way or the other. That being said, I hate to be immodest, but I think I am a much better poster than JohnAdams12. I do wholeheartedly agree with his assessment of ND (relative to the Ivies) though, as do apparently most other intelligent and rational members of the CC community.</p>