US students far from first in math, science

<p>Numerals 1-10 in colloquial spoken Finnish:
1.yks (yksi)
2.kaks (kaksi)
3.kolme (kolme)
4.nelj</p>

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<p>Oh Mini, we really could use more of those folks, but I would love to see gardeners who actually learned about plants and horticulture in a dedicated school (to keep us healthy.) I’d like to see short-orders cooks who actually learned their trade and the safety as opposed to join the army of people who jump into the jobs after dropping out of schools. I’d love to see people who actually know how to work on a car, know how to read blueprints, how to install European faucets and fixtures and not dump all the metric parts in the trash because they do not fit their tools, know to keep a pool clean by following the manufacturers’ instruction. </p>

<p>All in all people who can write well enough to compose a short proposal, people who do know that a millimeter is not a thousand-legged critter, people who can give me the correct change without a calculator, people who know Paris is a city and not a country, and a ton of simple things like that! </p>

<p>We love to fight the concept of identifying skills early among students because of US pride and misguided self-esteem cannot accept that not everyone resides on the shores of Lake Wobegon. And this rather than matching education systems to abilities, we prefer to think that everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer or someone destined to fleece widows or orphans on Wall Street. </p>

<p>What we actually do is pretending that our system is equitable and pretend that all kids in Detroit ISD do have equal chances to get into Michigan and Detroit, and not care too much that 70 to 80 percent will not make it through high school or graduate without any marketable skills and little literacy. </p>

<p>There are more problems that we can possibly solve, but we could at least try. And NOT accept that all is well for our future generations.</p>

<p>I wonder how Finland would compare to MN?</p>

<p>Finland Ethnic groups</p>

<p>Finn 93.4%,
Swede 5.6%,
Russian 0.5%,
Estonian 0.3%,
Roma (Gypsy) 0.1%,
Sami 0.1% (2006)</p>

<p>Minnesota Race / Ethnic Groups
White 4,405,142
Black 269,141
American Indian 55,421
Asian 212,996
Pacific Islander 1,860
Some Other Race 5,947
Two or More Races 103,160
Hispanic 250,258</p>

<p>My conclusion is northern white people are good at math. No offense to white people from the north :)</p>

<p>This is one of the most widely reported issues. </p>

<p>But I, as an American, am not worried. The measurements are of the mean, not the standard deviation of scholastic achievement. </p>

<p>Despite the low average, the US has by far the largest population of overachievers, the people who ensure that American universities will continue being the best, and keep the country competitive. Put it this way. It’s much better to have ten Einsteins and a million average-achievers than a million and ten average high-achievers.</p>

<p>The way I see math is it is progressive - starts with addition, subtraction and every thing else builds up on these basic principles. If we really want to make any difference, we need to make sure elementary schools are teaching those basic principles starting with kindergarten. You see a third grader hardly able to add 7 and 8. I am not saying it is a basic requirement at that age, but a kid who can’t quickly add two numbers by third grade starts thinking - I am not good at math. That’s not true at all, he/she just needs to “align” the brain and figure out how to do. Like reading which takes training, math takes training too. Do we let a student off the hook if she/he says I am not into reading. That was the case may be 100 yrs ago, but not now. There will always be some kids who are not interested in reading/writing or math and that’s ok. But the kids should not have the attitude - math is not my thing or I am not into math. </p>

<p>It is not all gloomy situation, there are a lot of kids who do really well in math. Just a bit more emphasis on math as soon as possible. </p>

<p>The tests do not tell another aspect - application of math. How well some one can try to analyze a pattern or a scenario or something new and describe it mathematically. Remember, most of the progress we made in physics is due to the collaboration of scientists with mathematicians. We wouldn’t be able to build the machines in mass scale or build the semiconductor chips (there is still a bit of gray area in the semiconductors especially in smaller geometries) if we didn’t have all those formulas/equations available. We are still a leader in the collaboration and that I am a bit worried about losing.</p>

<p>Actually BUBBLES, if you walk around any top-notch university these days, you will note that an increasily number of the undergrad and grad students are NOT Americans. One of my children just finished a year teaching high schoolers in China. There was no heat in the entire school. The 100+ chiildren in each class, without the latest technology, packed in to pew-like seats bundled up in coats in 30 degree weather in the winter. They had classes from 8 until 8 (no extra-curriculars here!). One day she didn’t have a classroom to teach in, and her class actually followed her around until they found a place to meet with her. She tried to cancel but they would not allow her to. The kids often went to the airport to study with lights and heat. They knew their future revolved around getting an education and despite the poor conditions, they valued the opportunity of an education. This would not happen in the US!</p>

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<p>Finland regularly scores at or near the top of these international tests, and they do pretty much just the opposite of what a number of posters here are suggesting. Their compulsory education system doesn’t begin until age 7; “Why hurry it? Children learn better when they’re ready,” is their mantra. Essentially no mandatory standardized testing until age 16, consequently no “teaching to the test.” Shorter school days, not longer, and more recess playtime for primary-school kids. Little or no homework until secondary school, and even then typically less homework than U.S. HS students get. No competition between schools or teachers for funds, merit pay, or recognition based on which school or which classroom performs better on standardized test or other “objective” performance metrics. Yet despite all that, they consistently show the lowest levels of achievement gap by socioeconomic background (i.e., highest levels of equality in educational outcomes), and among the highest median assessment scores at all grade levels–which, by the way, they pooh-pooh because their educational model views such tests with suspicion, as insufficiently nuanced to provide a meaningful assessment of any individual student’s learning achievement, much less that of an entire class or an entire nation. </p>

<p>So how do they do it? Well, it starts with a commitment to universal access to high-quality day care and pre-school, which is not mandatory but which is almost universally subscribed to, because they’re convinced early childhood education is the essential foundation. It continues with a commitment to small classes for everyone, often with assistant teachers and other specialists joining in to help the main teacher; and a teaching profession comprised of the nation’s best and brightest, all with masters degrees (earned at public expense) and all selected from the top 10% of their university class, with far more applicants than there are openings because teaching is esteemed as the noblest, most strategically important (from a national priorities perspective), and most socially valued of professions. Empowered, passionate, and creative teachers and principals who have latitude to experiment in the classroom, who understand that every student’s needs and learning style are unique, and who take pride not in sorting and grading, but in developing relationships with each and every student and in getting every last one of them to learn to his or her fullest potential. And with that, a deep commitment to the principle of equality, to ensure that the school and the classroom are truly working for everyone, even (or perhaps especially) those who need to struggle the most to overcome language or cultural or socioeconomic or disabilities barriers.</p>

<p>[Why</a> Are Finland’s Schools Successful? | People & Places | Smithsonian Magazine](<a href=“http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands-Schools-Successful.html]Why”>http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands-Schools-Successful.html)</p>

<p>Face it, only thing America is good at is war.</p>

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<p>Too facile. Norway, which consists almost entirely of white people from the north, performs at about the same level as the U.S. (i.e., well behind Finland) on these international assessments. Finland also easily outperforms the other Nordic states (Sweden, Denmark, Iceland) despite similar racial composition and latitude.</p>

<p>And here in the U.S., your race-plus-latitude theory would predict that Minnesota would be easily outstripped in test scores by Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, North Dakota, Montana, and Idaho, and slightly edged by Wisconsin and South Dakota—all whiter than Minnesota, and of equally high latitude.</p>

<p>Finally, there’s this important difference; in Finland, the educational “achievement gap” by race and socioeconomic status is the lowest in the world, while in Minnesota it’s among the highest in the United States.</p>

<p>[State</a> data: Little change in student test scores, achievement gap persists | Minnesota Public Radio News](<a href=“http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/08/01/education/student-test-score-data/]State”>http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/08/01/education/student-test-score-data/)</p>

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<p>Well there goes my book deal ;)</p>

<p>What is it about Finland the is producing results just a notch below Asian countries?</p>

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<p>While I am not sure if Finland does just the opposite at what posters suggest here, but it is a quasi certainty that Finland has gone down a path that is at the antipodes of ours. </p>

<p>In the past decades, our over-politicized system has abdicated most decisions to the powers that represent the service providers. The main objective in that period of time has been to protect the extorted benefits via CBA that mostly served to protect the most senior and hence more powerful beneciaries. The attempts to balance the books have created a system when the younger teachers need to paid substantially less than the “tenured” ones. Instead of attracting better trained and better educated candidates, this system has created a descent in deeper and deeper mediocrity. </p>

<p>In addition because of the non-competitive starting salaries, the system relies on a supply of new blood to be culled from the lowest denominator of aspiring teachers and from the dismal programs that are arming those aspiring with plenty of pedagogy “skills” and almost none of the academic basic skills or subject mastery. </p>

<p>In total contradiction to the Finnish system, ours IS relying on parental support and involvement to shore up the glaring holes of an education that are left by our failing schools. And that is also why we are somewhat competitive through the early years, and way out of range after middle-school. </p>

<p>Simply stated, the Finnish system of education does what it is supposed to do and that is DELIVER a COMPETITIVE education within the four walls of the schools, and during the time of the day when children are alert and receptive. The system relies on teachers that are specialists in pedagogy at the early stages but also on subject specialists who have been trained and educated in the subject they will teach. </p>

<p>And, fwiw, Finland is hardly an exception. There are many countries that have realized what it takes to educate their young. We in contrast rely on elections and on organized corruption to maintain a status-quo, and will continue to do so for as long as the powers that control our public education are in place.</p>

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<p>Not completely true, but close enough!</p>

<p>bclintonk…humor…ChiselCheeks was being funny…</p>

<p>The problem is schools value English more than math and science. For example, my school requires four years of English, three years of math, and only two years of science. Having to retake a math class is commonplace and allowed, but failing an English class is unheard of. Being able to graduate by only passing Geometry is a disgrace. I have had few if any teachers that I could consider a math or science person. When schools do not even have capable teachers, what do they expect? </p>

<p>It is brought up quite often that English class teaches you writing skills and reading and thus is more important. That simply is not the case. English teachers rarely actually teach grammar or writing yet expect us students to know these things. “Interpreting” literature has taken over English classes and is unbelievably subjective. The English taught in high school is a complete and does not teach students how to read and write.</p>

<p>“What is it about Finland the is producing results just a notch below Asian countries?”</p>

<p>No shoes. (I’m serious - even the principals aren’t allowed to wear shoes.) Also no reading, no math, no reading readiness, before age 7. (and hence no scapegoating, humiliating, embarrassing, ignoring…And thus no early reading “specialists”, no “remedial reading” for six year olds, no phonics drills.) Shorter school year. Fewer hours. Students allowed to go cross-country skiing whenever they choose. Very, very few tests.</p>

<p>It doesn’t matter if the US is not first it only matters where you rank.</p>

<p>But I think the main reason for education “success” in Finland (and the Scandinavian countries generally speaking) has little to do with “education”, and most to do with several generations of universal access to health care, and low levels of childhood malnutrition and hunger. The socio-economic “achievement gap” is low because, when it comes to survival, the socio-economic gap simply doesn’t matter as much.</p>

<p>One word: Waldorf.</p>

<p>I wish I had some rep points left for that last post. Excellent points, as usual, both Xiggi and Mini.</p>

<p>I agree with mini.</p>

<p>Up thread there was a discussion about homework and time spent in classrooms. Before we spend more money on education we first need to teach teachers how to teach.</p>

<p>I’ve asked recently minted teachers in our community and they have confirmed that they never took a single class on HOW to teach. There are numerous learning styles and many different approaches to math. Wouldn’t it be nice if the educators were really educated?</p>

<p>As far as math and writing go, it’s about practice. And that means more time in the classroom. With a teacher (s) who is willing and able to take the needed time teach the concepts. </p>

<p>The math and reading scores are appalling at our local elementary school. I was told that 50% of last year’s 6th graders did not meet the math benchmark. The reading scores weren’t much better. This is the second year with these kind of scores. One fifth of the class had to be retaught multiplication.</p>