US vs UK PhDs

Graduate School
1

<p>Hi everybody,</p>

<p>This is actually a bit more complicated. It's more like:</p>

<p>US engineering PhD at a top-tier department, with an established supervisor in a large research group</p>

<p>vs</p>

<p>UK engineering PhD at a top-tier department, with a newish lecturer in a small research group</p>

<p>Here's an evaluation of all of the factors important to me at the moment, in no particular order:</p>

<p>Prospect of obtaining a good postdoctoral position
- Probably much more difficult to obtain a US post-doc position with a UK PhD (I'm not sure at this stage whether I want to do a post-doc, though).</p>

<p>Doing research that matches my interests
- Both options will be in my general area of interest. I've talked quite a bit to my potential supervisor in the UK, and he's been quite considerate of my interest, and has suggested some things which are very commensurate with both of our interests, skills and philosophies. On the whole, I'm guessing that a more established supervisor would be less flexible and less inclined to be influenced by his graduate students.</p>

<p>Relationship with supervisor
- Working in a small group means more one-to-one time with my supervisor.</p>

<p>Relationship with other graduate students
- As a counterpoint to the above, a large group of graduate students means there's the possibility of larger discussions and collaborations.</p>

<p>Quality of research possible
- Higher research output in the larger groups, compared to the UK position, and the established supervisors are obviously more experienced in their areas than the potential UK supervisor.</p>

<p>Taking classes
- You don't have to do any classes for a UK PhD. I've heard (from two different academics) that the classes taken by US PhD students don't really have any significant impact on the future quality of their research, but serve simply to broaden their base of knowledge.</p>

<p>Time to degree
- As a result of the taking of classes: UK PhDs are awarded in about 3 years, US PhDs are more like 4 or 5 years.</p>

<p>Uncertainty in all factors
- It's uncertain whether I will be able to work with my supervisors of choice in the US. Equally, it's uncertain what the trajectory of the UK supervisors career is, though I've heard from students in the department that he is very hard working, demanding, and dedicated.</p>

<p>/wall of text</p>

<p>Basically, I'm quite confused and would appreciate any additions and amendations people could make to the above evaluation.</p>

2

<p><em>bump</em></p>

<p>Really, I'd appreciate as much or as little as anybody can offer. Even just impressions about the difference in reputation of the two degrees.</p>

3

<p>Where do you want to work/live afterwards? If UK, go there. If US, do that one.</p>

<p>The reason US PhDs are longer is that they have far more classwork. UK PhDs have little to no coursework. Each country thinks their way is better.</p>

4

<p>
[quote]
Taking classes
- You don't have to do any classes for a UK PhD. I've heard (from two different academics) that the classes taken by US PhD students don't really have any significant impact on the future quality of their research, but serve simply to broaden their base of knowledge.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You can take classes to broaden knowledge and earn a master along the way of your phD (if you didn't have a master / had one in a different field)</p>

5

<p>How about money? I know that to get a PhD in the UK as a US citizen there is virtually no funding and I would have to pay out the nose. Likewise (and sounding like your situation) to get a PhD in the US as a UK citizen you are not eligible for certain government sponsored training grants and the like, but often they are still able to work out funding for international students. Do they pay you to get your PhD in the UK?</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
Taking classes
- You don't have to do any classes for a UK PhD. I've heard (from two different academics) that the classes taken by US PhD students don't really have any significant impact on the future quality of their research, but serve simply to broaden their base of knowledge.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Depending on your field of engineering, your PhD coursework is vital to your research. Many engineering PhD programs in the U.S. have a purely coursework based qualifying exam that a large portion of pre-candidates fail.</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
Where do you want to work/live afterwards? If UK, go there. If US, do that one.</p>

<p>The reason US PhDs are longer is that they have far more classwork. UK PhDs have little to no coursework. Each country thinks their way is better.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I suppose I probably want to end up in the UK. But I really don't know.</p>

<p>
[quote]
How about money? I know that to get a PhD in the UK as a US citizen there is virtually no funding and I would have to pay out the nose. Likewise (and sounding like your situation) to get a PhD in the US as a UK citizen you are not eligible for certain government sponsored training grants and the like, but often they are still able to work out funding for international students. Do they pay you to get your PhD in the UK?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Both the UK and US universities will give me comparable funding, though they won't buy comparable lifestyles (the UK being more expensive overall). I'm British, by the way.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Depending on your field of engineering, your PhD coursework is vital to your research. Many engineering PhD programs in the U.S. have a purely coursework based qualifying exam that a large portion of pre-candidates fail.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What's an example? I'm in chemical engineering, and both of the chemical engineering professors with US PhDs who I've asked about this thought coursework didn't aid research much. They indicated that it was just another hoop students had to jump through.</p>

<p>I don't doubt that I'd find at least some of the coursework new and interesting, but some won't be, and I'm not sure how much any of it will help me in the long run.</p>

8

<p>I also applied to US and UK PhD programs (though I'm in Biology). So I've probably only looked into this just as much as you have. UK PhD may be shorter/easier, but there's a reason for this. In the US it takes a long time to get a PhD because you're thrown this mostly novel project, and you've got to grind your way through it from beginning to end. (Ah, the infamous stories of a Harvard PhD.) You don't do this with a UK PhD. What that means is that, when you do a post-doc, it would be harder for you, if you haven't had to do completely independent work for a long time.</p>

<p>Also it is true that if you want to end up working in the US, you should do your PhD in the US, and ditto for the UK.</p>

<p>Personally, my decision came down to the culture of the people. I interviewed at UK and I realized I couldn't stand it. I like the forward, outgoing, adventurous and confident spirits of US students and even faculty. I want to be able to do crazy innovative experiments in grad school. UK schools (as well as many of the more traditional schools in the US) don't seem to foster an environment that supports this.</p>

<p>I think in terms of making a logical decision, the only thing you have to worry about is where you want to end up working. Other than that, this should be a decision that comes from inside. You probably already know which one you like, where you'd be happiest for the next 3-5 years.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
The reason US PhDs are longer is that they have far more classwork. UK PhDs have little to no coursework. Each country thinks their way is better.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The main reason most UK PhD program don't have coursework is that the undergraduate programs are generally a bit more advanced (in terms of the level of coursework covered). That, in turn, is because most UK undergraduate programs only focus on the subject that the student is majoring in whereas most US programs feature a wide range of 'general education' courses that take up, certainly in the first year or two, a lot of the courses. Some UK PhD courses require a 'taught' (e.g. coursework) masters to be completed first although this generally isn't the case for engineering courses.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Also it is true that if you want to end up working in the US, you should do your PhD in the US, and ditto for the UK.</p>

<p>Personally, my decision came down to the culture of the people. I interviewed at UK and I realized I couldn't stand it. I like the forward, outgoing, adventurous and confident spirits of US students and even faculty. I want to be able to do crazy innovative experiments in grad school. UK schools (as well as many of the more traditional schools in the US) don't seem to foster an environment that supports this.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't know that there's much basis for these gross generalizations. There only thing one can really say is that every case will be different and should be considered separately.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
What's an example? I'm in chemical engineering, and both of the chemical engineering professors with US PhDs who I've asked about this thought coursework didn't aid research much. They indicated that it was just another hoop students had to jump through.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Did you do your undergrad in the UK or in the US? And do you have a Master's already? As mentioned by another poster, US undergrad programs are less "concentrated" so the first year of PhD coursework is essential for a US undergrad. UK undergrads probably do more specialized coursework so they will be better prepared. I received my undergrad from Canada, which is in-between the two systems and I've found my PhD coursework to be invaluable, although it may be partially that I'm in an electrical engineering systems program which is very math intensize.</p>