USAMO an anti-hook?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
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<p>Well, I'm going to speculate here, so correct me if I'm wrong. But from your posts, I've got the vibe that you are VERY passionate about math/science (esp. physics), considering that you were able to get into Stanford AND MIT, there's no doubt in mind that you showcased your passion extremely well. However, in my case, I have about five "passions" that I'm heavily involved in, and I don't know if colleges would look favorably upon that. A brief overview of some of my stats that don't make my identity obvious follows:</p>

<p>Government
received the congressional award-silver medal
class president for four of the past five years
appointed to city council, site council, some advisory councils, etc </p>

<p>Math
2x USAMO (9th: 145.5/9, 10th: 150/10)
State winner AMCs (CA)
Perfect score in Math League (only about 30/500000+)
ARML International 4th Place
math club president
founded an annual math competition for middle school students (write questions for/organize)</p>

<p>International Relations
5 best delegate awards at mun/hmc
highest ranked sophomore in the region in mun
model congress president
mun co-president</p>

<p>Sports
varsity polo and swimming
swimming mvp last year
made state finals</p>

<p>Extensive Volunteer Work
350+ hours
spearheaded a volunteer program to educate orphans in rural india last summer (currently fundraising)</p>

<p>I do realize that my achievements aren't great, but would I be put at a further disadvantage if I choose to apply to schools like MIT due to the disparity of my passions?</p>

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<p>"I do realize that my achievements aren't great,"</p>

<p>I can tell you you are overly paranoid. That might be your weakness :D Achievements/stats will probably be the least of your worries, so I'll give you tips that might address the more subjective part of an application.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I highly advise you to read MIT blogs, and think about the following questions:</p>

<ul>
<li>What makes those bloggers so successful in connecting with their audience?</li>
<li>How do they make you like them?</li>
<li>How do they convey emotions? feelings? passions?</li>
<li>Show vs. Tell.</li>
</ul>

<p>Reading MIT blogs/caltech blogs definitely helped me to shape my own essay. As Chris Su says (he's an MIT blogger), your application is like a thesis, and you are trying to tell sth about yourself to the admission committee. </p>

<p>Those are my tips to shape your application/essays.</p>

<p>Now, my second tip, is to do your best on your essays/do what you like. And then when application time comes, don't stress out. Just do your best, anticipate in time, and submit your application without rethinking about it. Just forget about your application after you submitted it, and time will pass much faster. If you get in, great! But if not, I'm sure you'll find other means to succeed.</p>

<p>Another tip I have is that your application, or your thesis, has to be unified. After reading a resume, you can only remember/integrate a few points about each applicants. So try to unify your passions also, using the essay. A helpful thing to warm up and create ideas is make a short statement about yourself that summarizes your identity. Cut everyting else. From that statement, create an image (essay) of who you are.</p>

<p>I hope it helps.</p>

23

<p>I want to clarify two things, in case they were not clear from my posts earlier:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I have zero insider information on this case (or any other cases this year), and I don't mean to say that I know that WaitingforGodot had an issue with a recommendation. It is pure speculation.</p></li>
<li><p>When I say that a case like this makes me think "bad rec letter", I don't mean that the rec letter was necessarily right or fair. One would hope that this happens infrequently, but obviously it's possible for a recommendation writer to write unflattering things about an applicant with which others would disagree. Others on CC have said that WaitingforGodot is a person whom they like and trust, and I do not mean to insinuate that they are wrong in any way.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>

You were missing something in there, so I put it in bold for you. :)

...^ yeah.</p>

<p>I think MIT is simply getting tired of the old Math geniuses and they want some more variety? At least, not so many white/asian super math geniuses...</p>

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<p>Its not an "anti-hook" because I think</p>

<p>USAMO qualifiers that got accepted/USAMO qualifers that applied > total people that were accepted/total people that applied.</p>

<p>However, I do have to agree with the statement that it is no longer a real hook. Looking at the RD results, 4 USAMO qualifiers posted their results:</p>

<p>I might be wrong, but I believe that only 1/4 was accepted, and the other 3 were rejected.</p>

<p>Obviously this is a very small sample size, but I also personally know some qualifiers that did not post on here that were rejected, leading me to believe that qualifying is not as big as it once was (although I cannot prove to you the reason). However, I still believe my above statement to hold true (that the percentage acceptance with USAMO>total people that were accepted/total people that applied), but that could also be that most qualifiers are better at other areas too...making it maybe totally statistically insignificant.</p>

<p>Now, Godot's case is even more special because not only did he qualify for it, he was also Siemens semifinalist and Intel STS semifinalist (save RSI). He showed that he could not only do it on paper in a written competition but could apply his ideas to real concepts. So I have no idea why he did not get in. </p>

<p>However, like I said...dont worry about it. I am sure Godot will be successful no matter where he goes. Some other college will be willing to accept him in a heartbeat.</p>

<p>EDIT: @DataBox: Stop worrying. You are only a sophomore...wait until next year atleast =) (just to relieve some pressure). Besides, I think your other areas are very solid...you are not just a math/science type of guy if that is what you are worried about.</p>

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<p>One possible red flag on this guy's application is that he said "I cannot really explain how surprised and furious I was when I found out I was rejected" as if he expected to get in or deserved to get in. So maybe the admissions people saw arrogance in his essays / interview?</p>

27

<p>Btw, when I say that I do not consider it a hook anymore, its not saying that
USAMO qualifiers that got accepted/USAMO qualifers that applied > total people that were accepted/total people that applied.</p>

<p>is no longer true. I am simply saying that it is not that statistically significant (if that is the proper term to use) to consider it a hook.</p>

<p>If its 20%>10% (again this is just a hypothetical situation), I do not consider it a hook. Its just something that greatly enhances your resume. If its like 60%>10%, then it is a hook...however I do not believe that 60% of qualifiers that applied were accepted.</p>

<p>Basically, there is NO WAY that making USAMO can HURT you-that is why it is not an "anti-hook", as the person who started the thread said (and as some of you guys have alluded to). I repeat: there is NO WAY that making USAMO can HURT you. It can only help you but not to the extent where you can consider it a hook anymore.</p>

<p>That said, why don't you guys stop worrying about other people's situation? I am sure that the admissions officers had a legit reason to reject him. However, that does not mean that someone else with a similar profile will be rejected in the future. College admissions is still very random; @WaitingForGodot, if you truly believe that you are better than the people that were accepted, show them with your accomplishments in college. Making it to MIT is just a small part for the rest of your life. People that make state colleges turn out to be more successful and influential than many people that make MIT. Why? Because they stay motivated even through tough times.</p>

28

<p>I wonder if that kid went to TJ. Because I've heard (yes, this is hearsay - take it for what it's worth) that TJ kids are really getting screwed in admissions this year. So if that's the case, he wouldn't really be an exception.</p>

<p>If not, I would guess either a bad essay (I really think these count for a lot more that people give them credit for) or bad/questionable recs (same as essays - they really do count a lot). I don't think MIT would have rejected a kid like that just because they didn't interview.</p>

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<p>Consider RSI. The student may have been rejected due to something said by an RSI prof, who did not write one of his recommendations. For the most part, RSI participants work at MIT labs for the summer, there are exceptions. While this board has shown some USAMO rejections, have any seen an MIT rejection of an RSI participant? I doubt very much that the student who was accepted into RSI, for which you must submit teacher recs, had something negative in the recs he submitted. Also, RSI requires essays, so his essays were good enough for RSI, which has a much lower acceptance rate.
I know of great students who have had personality conflicts with profs at summer programs and then would not want to use them for recs. But with the close relationship between RSI andf MIT, that may not be an option.
And I think the student was justified in being upset and that does not provide any clue about why he was rejected.<br>
With all that said, this is a prime example of the "crap shoot" of college admissions. It has a lot to do with luck. Is your app the one of a thousand "regular" smart kids that they accept or is it the one thousand and first of the science/math superstars for which they no longer have room in building a "diverse" class.</p>

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<p>I just found out what USAMO was, and by the looks of it, this is a highly competitive and exhausting competition. It sounds as if the problems taking hours??? </p>

<p>In terms of the thread-I think that anyone who even gets to compete in this competition should be considered extremely math-skilled. (I believe that you have to qualify for this competition and that makes you extremely math-skilled). In addition, I believe the person we are talking about scored a 10? out of 42? My personal opinion is that this level of mathematics and the types of questions can be very daunting the first time around. It took me about a year to get use to the type of questions on my local math team, so I can understand if the first time is a little rough for the majority of individuals.</p>

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<p>I am not sure that I get the drift of your post, hawkswim09. Are you suggesting that a score of 10 out of 42 meant that the test was a "little rough" for Waiting for Godot?</p>

<p>To win the USAMO in 2008, a person needed a score of 28 or better, out of 42. There were 12 students in the country who scored that high. Of them, only 5 were juniors or below. There were an additional 12 who were awarded Honorable Mention, for scores of 22 or above. There were 7 juniors among them.</p>

<p>I haven't gone through the complete list to see where a 10 ranks overall, nationally, but you can find it at:
<a href="http://www.unl.edu/amc/e-exams/e8-usamo/e8-1-usamoarchive/2008-ua/2008USAMOscores.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.unl.edu/amc/e-exams/e8-usamo/e8-1-usamoarchive/2008-ua/2008USAMOscores.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Unfortunately, there's no telling from this where a 10 ranks among juniors, although one could surmise from the distribution in the top 24 that seniors tend to score higher.
There are plenty of scores of 0 on the USAMO among this very elite group. Even that's no badge of shame.</p>

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<p>Just as a reminder, and not intended to be rude:</p>

<p>Suppose that person A has a genuinely stellar set of accomplishments.</p>

<p>If person A has some serious personality or character defect that comes across in the application, then person A is not admitted to MIT.
True enough.</p>

<p>But please remember that a statement does not imply its converse.</p>

33

<p>Suppose the adcom woke up on the wrong side of the bed that day...</p>

<p>upsetting, but entirely possible.</p>

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<p>His rejection might also have something to do with the fact that he has no idea how to compute a weighted GPA despite being a supposed math whiz.</p>

<p>His GPA is listed as 4.09/4.00 when he has taken at least 4 year-long AP courses. His weighted GPA should be at least 4.20 to 4.30 minimum--either that or he took very few "demanding" courses at his high school (which seems unlikely). A 4.1 weighted GPA is very, very low for a school like MIT--in fact this score is unlikely to get you into UC Berkeley, UCLA, or even UCSD out here in California. Perhaps the score was just entered as listed here--and he got "filtered" out based simply on that.</p>

<p>Just a thought.</p>

35

<p>I remember reading somewhere that public schools in Fairfax county are on a 6-point scale and only weight 0.5 for AP classes and nothing for honors classes. And I'm not sure about post-AP classes.</p>

36

<p>He is a student from TJHHST.
His stats are true.
He was applying for EA, not RD.
He got an outright rejection instead of being deferred.
TJ's teachers who wrote the recs like him very much. (If they put so-called red flag on his application and caused the outright rejection, this student would have no chance of being accepted to any top school).
He has many friends in school and a quite decent young man.</p>

<p>What went wrong?
Maybe RSI could offer a clue, right or wrong.</p>

37

<p>yes, Godot did, in fact, go to TJ and getting a 4.1 W at TJ is nothing to be ashamed about, and definitely good enough for MIT!</p>

<p>A 10 on USAMO is insanely good...it puts you in the ~65 percentile of all USAMO qualifiers (there were 70 0's on USAMO last year)</p>

38

<p>This link was posted on another thread here, but it's relevant to this debate: MIT</a> TechTV – Behind the Scenes of Admissions at MIT.</p>

<p>Until I viewed this video, I did not know whether MIT ever considered the entire applicant pool from a given high school. Apparently this does happen in the course of admissions. I'm familiar with the MIT applicants/admitted students from one large Silicon Valley public high school. Over the past 5 years, the school has had one or two students accepted to MIT each year out of an applicant pool that averages 10-15 students. To the school, the acceptances make sense; MIT has always offered admission to the top math/science students at the school and every USAMO qualifier has received an offer of admission (this year as well). </p>

<p>If a student comes from a nationally prominent math/science magnet school, at some point the application will be considered in company with other applications from the same school. I have no idea whether this played a part in the admissions decision discussed here, but it may have.</p>

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<p>^Wow, that's pretty interesting CalAlum. I had never heard of that before. Thanks for the link!</p>

<p>Nobody from my entire district has been accepted to MIT in the past decade. Would that put me at an automatic disadvantage during the admissions process? (I'm the second USAMO qualifier in my district's history, the first was accepted (although he was also an IMO gold medalist))</p>

40

<p>Yes, in a lot of ways admissions has always been harder from a magnet school like TJ because nearly everyone is MIT-level. However, if you managed to be a star at TJ, then acceptance was automatic because you were a proven commodity. In the past, you didn't even need major national awards like RSI or USAMO to make it if you really did well at a place like TJ. But TJ is also like a normal high school in one respect--usually there is a small group of people who rack up most of the prestigious awards. </p>

<p>Also, don't get the idea that MIT admissions is crazier than Stanford or HYP admissions. They did this sort of thing for years. I can think of plenty of guys with accomplishments nearly that good (although no RSI) who I think unfairly got rejected from top places. There was a circulating email among Intel finalists years ago in which many of them were complaining that they were getting shut out of their top choices.</p>