Hi there! First off, I last used CC MANY years ago when I was applying to undergrad and then to help give advice, and it was so helpful, it’s funny to be back…
My partner is a Marine veteran CC transfer who was just admitted to USC, UCB and Carolina to graduate c/o 2023. I actually went to USC for law school and loved it but am hoping to get some guidance on what life is like for undergrad and any info on the Geospatial Intelligence major.
We are fortunate that because my partner is a veteran, the cost of each of these schools would all be the same, so the comparison here really just comes down to where he will get the most support and have the best job prospects?
Does anyone have any information to share on comparison between UCB and USC for stats or geospatial intelligence, experiences at USC with post-graduation work, etc.?
Thank you to everyone in advance and sorry if this is in the wrong thread! I’m old!
Congrats to your partner! Both schools are great, but these are significantly different programs.
USC’s program is more specialized in GIS, spatial analytics, and the background in geographic and social sciences that relates to these.
Berkeley’s undergraduate stats degree is heavy in math/theory, although he could use his “cluster” electives to study topics more like the USC program’s focus, if he chose.
If he wants to become a serious theoretical statistician he should definitely go to Berkeley. If he wants to hit the ground running and build a portfolio as a GIS professional, he should probably go to USC - he could make this happen at Berkeley too, but he’ll have to initiate seeking out the background and opportunities while also meeting his stats major requirements, whereas USC’s program is more likely to plug him directly into professional opportunities.
He won’t lack for support in either place - both have terrific alumni networks. What does he want to end up doing?
Thank you, this is really helpful! So, to add to complications here… he sees two paths. His childhood dream was to be a fire department Chief, but he recognizes starting as a firefighter is really hard on your body and if we have kids I might make an ultimatum that he quits (lol). He has been drawn to data science and ultimately wants a degree in something really marketable (perhaps above all else). He’s taken two years of generals leading up to this and has enjoyed math well enough, he’s in Calc II now and will probably get a B, likes his C++ class in programming and will probably do fine in that, too. He was drawn to GIS because of the faculty teaching it and he loves studying maps but to be honest I think we could both be better educated in what a career there really looks like. Anyway, any and all information is super helpful. Both of us just want to understand where he would have the most open doors and support. Although UCB is a fantastic school, having gone to a public undergrad myself and then USC I’m concerned it might not have as much support and guidance career wise, but maybe I’m overly paranoid… Thank you!
UCB has a data science major with a geospatial information and technology domain emphasis:
However, he may have to ask the department directly about whether he can change to that major if admitted as a transfer student intending statistics. For comparison, the UCB statistics major is described here:
The USC major in human security and geospatial intelligence is described here:
It does appear to have a more social science emphasis than UCB data science or (especially) statistics.
Perhaps the actual question would be, would he prefer to study theoretical statistics (UCB statistics), statistics and computing applied to geospatial information (UCB data science), or a more social science emphasis on geospatial information and intelligence? He should compare the courses and curricula for each to see what interests him the most.
Since he’s interested in firefighting, here’s an article about how GIS has become an essential component of fighting and preventing wildfires. There are links to a number of portals that show how these systems rely on geospatial data and the professionals who analyze it: GIS technology aids in effective response to California wildfires If he wanted to be a part of dealing with the growing wildfire problem in California, as a GIS professional, he could absolutely pursue that.
If he just really hasn’t gotten his feet wet in GIS at all and can’t tell if he wants to commit to the specialty… if he has time, he might want to delve into this Coursera class and get a sense of what studying GIS is like: https://www.coursera.org/specializations/gis
He’s going to have a lot of math/stats left to take if he goes the Berkeley route. He still has a year or more of lower-division math ahead of him (multivariable calc, linear algebra, and lower-division stats if he hasn’t taken that), and then all of the upper-division requirements. A lot of UCB freshman come in with the same level of math preparation that he will have, entering as a transfer, so he’ll have a lot of ground to cover - he should drill down on whether he could actually finish in two years.
The USC program, OTOH, will be a mix of GIS classes and social sciences: poli sci, public policy, international relations, management. There’s a lot of variety there, but again he should look at how long it will take to complete all of the remaining courses.
Two very different experiences. Both should make him employable, but it depends what he wants to do. He should look at the curriculum maps side by side, see how long each will really take (considering lower-division requirements he will need to back-fill), and consider the different doors that each one will open.
Thank you so much! This is SO helpful! He’s taken his lower stats stuff and done well and the other good thing is that his GI bill would cover additional years if needed if he goes the BS route. He is claiming he doesn’t need multivariable but we will investigate. We’ll go through all of this info here and follow-up… thank you again, sincerely, it’s so hard to evaluate from afar and we’re both in our 30’s so the campus tours about how good the food is isn’t as relevant! lol
It’s good that he has funding for more than two years if he needs it! I’d map out the remaining coursework side-by-side, for both programs… especially highlighting the classes that will add meaningfully to his portfolio of professional-quality projects and marketable skills.
Also, have you compared your housing options? The housing market isn’t easy in either place but Berkeley is super-crunched.
That’s a great idea re mapping out every course remaining. He’s hoping to speak with counselors this next week and run to ground what actually transfers, etc. For UCB he was admitted to Letters and Science, IIRC data science might be in a different school and so not an easy option to change to… though I’ll have to run that by him.
He actually wrote his essay on using data science to help come up with better practices for the fire service and in doing that did a lot of research on different research orgs looking into these issues. Definitely think he’d enjoy that, but he’s an open minded guy and we don’t know what we don’t know. He’s first gen college and I had never heard of GIS until he told me about it so hard for me to help him evaluate how niche it is or if I think he’d enjoy it as a career.
Although he’s definitely passionate about using data to help the fire service, I think being older and about to have kids we are both just a little more cautious and wanting him to gain real skills but also hoping he can find an environment where he will have support he needs if he stumbles a bit during the transition to either school - he is really dedicated and likes hard sciences but I’m sure going from Santa Ana College to UCB or USC will be an adjustment. I am a really burnt out attorney and ready to retire and can’t help him much, lol! I’m worried because I hear UCB is very competitive, which can be good, but neither of us knows how he’ll stack up on a curve or if maybe it’s OK if he’s an average bear (pun intended) there.
Housing is the other thing. My work is in OC but I think my firm will let me move and work remotely, but our thought is if he goes to USC we could stay living in Irvine, where we’re really familiar, but if he goes to Berkeley, I’m really less familiar with that area - we’re going up next weekend to check out Oakland and see how we feel about the vibe. We went back to Chapel Hill and loved the area so much but I feel really hesitant to presusre him to do stats there because I think that would be leaving so much on the table here given no additional cost. Looking at the virtual tours, UCB seems beautiful with amazing facilities. I don’t really know what the East Bay is like. I’m an attorney for start-ups and public companies so I think would be great for what I do… but life sure would be different from Irvine!
We feel lucky, he was hoping to get into a school, but to have these choices has thrown us for a loop. With the GI bill, cost isn’t an issue, but cost of living and big picture lifestyle choices are more what we have to figure out. I write all of this out because I graduated in the recession and although I had my BS in Psych (I know, def not as marketable as what we’re talking about here) graduating with honors from Carolina, I struggled finding work and I want to help him avoid that. My fear is us having a young child when he graduates and struggling to take off upon graduation.
So I am embarrassed to say he has read this thread and is making fun of me because he actually intends to do Data Science at UCB if he were to go there (I confused UCB with Carolina, where data science is within the stats major). But I think the same idea holds - we’re looking at what’s required and it seems do-able, but see what y’all are saying here.
Ahh, okay, that makes more sense in terms of overlapping with the USC major in emphasis. The UCB Data Science major has a “domain emphasis” of the student’s choice, and Geospatial Information & Technology is one of the options, so he could still go in that direction with the Berkeley program. The UCB program is still quite a bit more math and CS heavy than the USC program, but if he’s not sure he wants the GIS emphasis, there are more directions he could go in with the Berkeley program.
I don’t think GIS is too “niche” at all if he’s confident about his interest in it. It’s a growing field with tons of employment potential. Lots of work being done with data collection by drones. There’s also a lot of room for creativity in terms of how the data is visually/spatially represented. Also, there’s the whole “security” angle built into the USC major - if he wants to get into a security/intelligence-related career, I would think that his military experience would give him a big advantage as a job candidate.
But, if he wants to approach data science from more of a generalist perspective and pick a specialty later, then the Berkeley program would be better for that, so long as he is good with grinding through all of the theoretical underpinnings.
Do you mean “he should be able to get a B rather than a B-/C+“, or “he’s hoping for an A/A-, but might drop to a B+”. If the former I’d probably choose the pre-pro course with the math necessary to get by (USC), if the latter then a theoretical math course with the pre-pro elements available as an option (UCB) seems more tenable.
There’s a vast difference in the level of math competency between students depending on the type of course, my S switched from theoretical poli Sci/Econ to pre-pro public affairs and found almost all the pre-pro students were just not very good at math and complained that any theoretical stuff was too hard.
He’ll probably get an A- but might get a B. One issue is that he spent a lot of time this semester applying to colleges - he ended up applying to 19 because neither of us knew how it would shake out. The other issue has been everything being online for so long, he’s gotten kind of burnt out of that lecture style. He’s also in logic/discrete math and I think expects an A there but is ready to have classes in person again. I used to tutor people in college and see he’s happy to put the time in to do well and doesn’t seem to have an aversion to putting in late nights to figure out proofs etc., so I’m not too concerned. I think all of this stuff is much easier when you’re older because you have fewer distractions. That said I definitely don’t think he’s interested in pursuing a path that is purely academic. His thought is that to become a fire chief you need to be a generalist - skills in the field (carpentry, paramedicine) but also be able to move up the ranks (policy, administration, analysis).
Hi all, I’m bumping this up as I’m wondering two other questions and curious if there are any recent grads or current students who could give their impressions:
What is it really like to be a data science major at Berkeley? Is it actually cut throat? What is the vibe? What is it like applying for jobs in the bay area? Can you form relationships with professors? Are the class sizes for upper-level classes huge?
Same question for GIS at USC - anyone with actual experience in that major specifically? Same questions as above basically.
Can anyone speak to perception of veterans at either campus?
Since data science does not appear to be a favored pre-med major, nor does it appear to be competitive to declare, it seems unlikely to have a higher level of cutthroat attitudes.
Visiting professors’ office hours is more leisurely at times other than just before or just after an exam or project due date.
https://career.berkeley.edu/survey/survey has the UCB career survey, which allows filtering by major. However, the job titles suggest that many of the data science major graduates may also have majors in CS or otherwise have a strong computing emphasis.
Wow, I wish I had had this tool (or thought to use it) when I was applying to undergrad. This is fantastic data on the different majors at UCB and agree, looks like most common outcome for this major is software engineer.
When I was evaluating law schools I was able to get some of this by asking directly but noted this stuff is rarely published on school websites. That was ten years ago though, so perhaps this has all changed. Will definitely look through this and see what USC can provide on its major.
Agree re CS, my father is a data scientist and advises that it’s difficult to get these jobs without CS background, and I’m not super clear if my BF would be able to get that at Berkeley during undergrad or need to tack on a masters, which he has the option of doing.
We thought the decision would get easier with some time but we’re still in a stalemate; it feels like comparing apples to oranges. He also ended up getting into UVA/Carolina for stats but probably foregoing those options, so we’re back to UCB vs. USC.
Really appreciate everyone’s help on this! We’ll let you know whatever he chooses.
USC does not appear to have career survey results by major on its public web site, or it is very hard to find.
However, you can also get limited information from College Scorecard, which is median pay for graduates who received federal financial aid in each major. For example:
We’ll go through all of this info here and follow-up… thank you again, sincerely, it’s so hard to evaluate from afar and we’re both in our 30’s so the campus tours about how good the food is isn’t as relevant! lol