USC meeting your full financial need- a lie?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Southern California
1

So I applied to USC for the Fall 2015 Session, and I’m ecstatic to have gotten in. But today I received my financial aid.
And I’m just so disappointed, as I won’t be able to attend my dream school due to financial reasons. I got my hopes up and then this.

My FAFSA EFC is about $31,000, so I assumed USC could atleast give me 20k in grants? But nope, I get 3k in grants and I have to pay for the rest with loans. And frankly, I do not want to be in debt of more than $120,000+ after I get my degree. Even USC isn’t worth that.

I just want to know if anyone else had a similar experience. I did submit my FAFSA and CSS Profile on time, so that’s not why I didn’t get much. Oh and I know they take into account home ownership and other assets we reported on the CSS profile. But my family doesn’t have much of that either.

Is there any way I can appeal, even though I don’t have convincing circumstances? My parents and I simply can’t afford this much. But I still really really want to go here.

Also, I’m really sorry if this sounds like a rant. It’s just that love this school, and it really sucks not being able to go because of financial reasons.

2

Yes you can appeal financial aid decisions. You can ask to meet with (if you can make a trip to USC it is very helpful to meet face to face) or talk to someone in financial aid. Be sure to have all your financial information -parental information is obviously the most important and having a parent help with this is essential.

A FAFSA EFC can be VERY different than an EFC calculated using the CSS profile or Need Access forms. Unless you filled them out (versus your parents) you really have no idea how much financial information they pull and use to calculate your financial need. They take into account such things are retirement plans (401K) college savings plans , home equity, investments, non custodial parent assets, etc… They are exhaustive and comprehensive- always portraying the best case scenario of your ability to pay. This makes the EFC of many students surprisingly high and not really doable for most families without serious sacrifices.

The EFC is not calculated to be what you can pay without changing your family’s lifestyle- it is usually what is barely (if that) possible if you tap into ALL your assets. This means tapping retirement savings, home equity, savings, investments, etc…

I hope an appeal helps and you can negotiate a better deal, however, it may be the case that your family is in that terrible spot of making too much for any real help at a very expensive private college.

3

@simbaaa, did you receive an email that the FA is complete?

In the past, the FA is not complete until you get the email, I pretty sure this year will be the same.

4

Not necessarily a lie, though some employees and missives lie about this because they are not careful with their wording or foolishly don’t know how it works. USC meets full need as USC defines that need. There isn’t a college in the country that I know of that guarantees to meet full need as defined by FAFSA EFC. Schools using PROFILE and/or other info systems to determine need have other parameters in there to come up with what they think a family should pay.

I doubt that you, as a student were offered more than $5500 in Direct loans and maybe something in Perkins. The other loans involve your parents and really are their loans. 18, 19 year olds can’t get big loans even for school, on their own. as a rule.

Have you gotten any other fin aid packages from PROFILE schools? Do ask the USC financial aid, how they got the expected contributions for your parents and for you. You should understand their process. It is also possible there is some mistake in there, so do find out what goes into the numbers. Also play with the USC NPC to get an idea on those calculations.

5

@camomof3, thanks so much for the post, it was really helpful! Unfortunately I won’t be able to visit USC anytime soon considering I live like, halfway across the world at the moment. And I guess emailing them wouldn’t be a viable option.

I think you’re right about me not taking all the assets into account. My parents did fill out the FAFSA and the Profile so I’m not sure about everything that goes in. And unfortunately, I find that it’s true that upper middle-middle class families have it the worst when it comes to financial aid at private colleges :confused:

@co4usc2016, Yeah I have received the email!

6

Run the USC NPC to see if it makes sense. That’s the approx formula used for need, not the FAFSA EFC.

The well tod families have ti the worst when it come to fin aid. They get nothing. Once you reach a certain level of income and/or assets, you get zero financial aid.

7

This seems to come up every year with USC. For some reason, there is misinformation floating around that USC is gererous with financial aid. It is not; it is one of the least generous “need met” schools you will find because they define “need” very strictly. USC is more akin to NYU in this regard (tho NYU states upfront that it will not meet need). Lasy year, a student I worked with qualified for a hefty pell grant, had an EFC near 2000 and presumably no assets. USC knocked off about 25k from the 60k+ bill and expected the family to take out massive loans to pay the balance. Turns out that USC decided the family had enough home equity to cover this, despite two mortgages on the house - and the house was in serious need of many significant repairs.

Kids need to understand this before applying. I do wish USC was more upfront about its financial aid policies. “Meeting need” connotes a far more generous policy than USC actually has.

8

@cptofthehouse Actually they didn’t even offer me any Direct loans, just the Parent PLUS loan I believe. It is a parent loan, but I wouldn’t want to put such a burden on them.
I’m genuinely confused as to how my FAFSA EFC is more than 30,000 dollars lower than my USC-determined EFC.
:frowning:

Oh well, no point worrying about it now. I guess I was meant to be a UCLA Bruin!
Thanks guys for all the help, and I advise you all to not get obsessed with one college, because you will be disappointed if it doesn’t work out.

Didn’t try the NPC, I’ll try that out. Thanks cptofthehouse.

And thank you prospect1, I was definitely misinformed on that regard, although I still would have applied :stuck_out_tongue:

9

You can definitely try to negotiate via email- phone and in person is the best, but email is possible too.

** I’m surprised UCLA was a lot more affordable if you are halfway around the world. It should be expensive for you as well.

UCLA is a wonderful alternative though!!

10

OP, do fill out the NPC to get some idea where USC is getting its numbers. My understanding, and the common data sets back it up, show that USC does give good financial aid. Absolutely not like NYU. Numbers don’t even compare. Unless USC is lying, and yes, that has happened with colleges.

The PLUS loan does NOT count as financial aid to you. The only loans that so count are subsidzed loans, and that would be from the Direct Loans which are automatically in the picture if you are a US citizen and the Perkins loans which USC has the control to dole out as they please. You should have a Direct Loan in there if you have unmet need defined by FAFSA EFC. I am wondering if USC has you down as an international student.

prospect, your anecdote makes no sense. The home equity value is defined as what is net of any loans on the house. I have seen situations where a person could not get a loan on a house because it already has mortgages on it even though there is equity left and that equity is still counted as a college asset. But I’ve not seen a school value a home with a mortgage and other loans on it, without subtracting those liens against the market value.

I’ve seen PELL eligible families get zero financial aid–easy to happen if there is a divorce situation. My friend fell into that category. Only asset an expensive house she got from the divorce and was living off the home equity line on it,so she had a zero EFC though the kids’ father made a half million dollars. But schools like USC will not usually permit the NCP off the hook and the kids got no financial aid from the school, just state and federal money due to the FAFSA EFC being zero.

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@cptofthehouse‌ - the common data set for any school is a good indication, although not necessarily reflective, of the generosity of the aid. It reflects the aid for attending students, not all accepted applicants. The many, many students offered poor financial aid packages from schools like USC (and I don’t mean to pick on USC, there are many such schools), cannot and therefore do not end up attending…and you will not see the terrible packages offered to them reflected in the CDS. Re: assets such as home equity, a family with literally no other assets, and who cannot tap into that home equity for a variety of reasons (3rd mortgage not available due to low income, poor credit, condition of the house, etc) has been the equivalent of rejected from a school like USC who digs for every scrap of assets from a student, sometimes beyond reason. I don’t know your personal experiences with USC, and I am only providing my own anecdotal information - but yes, I have seen this time and time again with USC.

A school that bills itself as “need met” when in fact its internal calculation of “need” is somewhat stingy is not a school that is entirely upfront IMO. Great school, no question, and a wonderful choice for those few who can (1) afford it, or (2) get one of their great (but VERY rare, as in less than 5% of the student body) top merit packages. But, as is alas the case at many schools, not a great choice for those in the middle who were not awarded merit aid.

12

I specifically pointed out eh situation where home equity can be an inaccessible asset in my post. Unfortunately, for such families, it is still considered an asset, even by Harvard and Yale. Only if the home is underwater, can it have a zero value (or have an accepted market value that is equal to the liens on it). That’s the way it works with most all of the schools. I’m not sure what you mean about USC digging for every scrap of asset from a student, but I see that with a number of schools. You’d be surprised at the % of assets used from parents holdings at some schools, and of kids (JHU used 30% last year), UChicago kept track of student assets from the day the student first applied for financial aid, and adds set percentage of that number though all four years, BC uses 401K funds, etc, etc. I have yet to hear any complaint of what USC does, other than offering up PLUS as financial aid, something a number of schools do, when it does not so count under Common Data standards . Neither do Subsidized loans, by the way, and I see schools breaking that rule a lot in presenting aid packages.

So what does USC do that makes it less generous? I am curious. Does it add a large required student contribution as I’ve seen schools do, as a base? Does it include loans and PELL in their packages as a number of schools that say they meet full need do, (most, in fact). Does it add loans from its own coffers to students as Cornell does? As of now, I’ve yet to see any such situation and would like to so see. But then I don’t know many who go there. I have several good friends’ kids there and my nephew was accepted there. Some of that bunch got fin aid pacakges, but they were in line with other aid packages. No big horror. On the other hand, NYU is legendary for not meeting need, not even trying, as they do not claim to meet it, as USC does.

But, the house thing happens everywhere all of the time. One of my very close friends owns low income housing. The rents from that real estate comprises a goodly part of family income. His job has been to manage the property. THey are his nest egg for retirement. Can’t get loans for them because of the type of property they are, and also repaying any loans, erodes the not so great income he gets. Selling a unit also does the same–he would get the money from it but it’s like selling one of the geese laying income prodiucing eggs. Yet, Harvard, despite saying that it’s a free ride for those who have a family income under the amount friend has, would not give that to his son because he owned all that property. Told him to sell some of it. Didn’t care that was what was his income.

So, how is USC getting away with saying they meet full need and not doing so or having an onerous definition of need by formula? I am interested as I do collect these outliers and I’ve yet to get a sold piece of info on USC about this.

13

Just received our FA offer. $1,750 subsidized loan. Nothing more. Was I the only one who saw their recent post about $300 million is financial aid? Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. They don’t call it the “University of Spoiled Children” for nothing. UT Austin here we come, hook 'em horns!

14

Thanks cptofthehouse. I feel a lot of sympathy for these poor worn out anxious HS seniors as they worry about being admitted to highly selective colleges, and then add the worry of not being able to afford attending. It’s very hard and especially on those who have neither great wealth nor simple absence of wealth. Many of the regular posters on CC have seen this scenario over and over, and we have some understanding of the complicated nature of FA, incuding what all the words like “need” mean to college FA. Personally, I also see USC as among the more upfront and honest in clearly stating they work off of PSS and not FAFSA. So while one may not like it, they are stating what they use as criteria for FA eligibility. Once that Parent Contribution is calculated, USC only offers Fed student Loans, a modest amount in work study, and the rest is grants. I’ve seen other colleges that say they meet full need, but they add private student loans. USC doesn’t do that, for which our family has been grateful.

That said, I don’t believe any private university or college is obligated to give aid–it’s all a gift. And if you don’t get what you need to attend, you must sigh and move on to a more affordable option. In this way, private college is like the expensive model car–it might just be out of reach. It’s a harsh pill to swallow, because this out-of-reach pricetag is not the same for all students. Low-income students will get more grant aid than Trustee Scholars–more than full tuition. That is just a hard reality for middle-income students. The only alternative may be winning the merit scholarship lottery, attending a state school, or attending a school who gives great merit $ to a student in your GPA/SAT range to attract you. These are typically schools lower in the rankings, but graduating without debt is a powerful incentive.

15

@smbern – did you receive an email that your FA package is complete? If not, the info (awards, etc) is subject to change, as it has in past years.

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Just to make it clear to all, I have no special interest in USC. I’m interested in any info about any college with regard to financial aid and other issues that stand out. I don’t believe the PR or Admissions folks without verifying and, yes, there are the lies. GWU is an excellent recent example.

17

By no means am I picking on USC alone for this - other than, at least around here, they are touted for having about the most generous scholarship aid possible …and then it always seems to fall way short and disappoint. People do not realize that those big scholarships are actually meted out to a select few. I have no idea how their institutional aid is calculated, other than (as the OP noted) there always seem to be big gaps that the families did not anticipate and don’t understand, and are often unreasonable (like your Harvard example). I’m sure there are similar stories at many such schools. I just have a problem with schools claiming to meet “full need” and then stories such as OP’s emerge…and not just at USC. I think “full need met” colleges need to be way more upfront about how they calculate “need.” NPC calculators notoriously fail many families.

Maybe the best thing to do is to reach out to an FA office and get a read before applying. That way, there would not be these surprises. However, I don’t know if FA offices would be willing to do this for prospective applicants.

18

Totally agree with your posts and perspective @prospect1. It is the deceptive marketing - whether it is USC or others, saying they meet need then doing it by telling you to get loans. For those new to the process it is a huge surprise. It is all about the message. And then when someone is shocked by their contribution being 10s of thousands more than expected - suggesting they negotiate - playing the lottery is more of a sure thing. We never qualified for aid, it was so obvious we never would, so this isn’t coming from bitterness about not getting aid. I have issue with the same things you do - misleading people, getting kids hopes ups, leaving their parents to crash down on their dreams. Brutal marketing. Just like the NMF, they finally got better about making that more clear in the last couple years. Before they did, every NMF thought they were in for sure and with half! Gotta be more clear about this stuff, colleges are really messing with this generation’s mental health.

19

@camomof3 UCLA will be a stretch the first year, but my parents already moved to California this year so we’ll be able to get instate tuition by the second. :slight_smile:

20

Sounds like a much better deal for you, Simbaa. Congrats on UCLA.