USC, NYU or Chapman for Film Production??

<p>Please be realistic, Chapman fans. Yes, many film programs “want” to overtake USC, UCLA and NYU, as I’m sure many universities “want” to overtake Harvard or Yale. But Chapman’s PR agenda, lots of overly eager posters on CC, or articles about how much they <em>want</em> it still doesn’t make it so. There is no serious comparison between Dodge and and these other schools in rigor of university education, industry reputation or networking opportunities. Chapman is growing, has lots of talented students and spirit, and is trying hard to make an impact, but many Hollywood insiders have, frankly, not even heard of it. It takes time to build a solid program, gain Hollywood acceptance, and be taken seriously. </p>

<p>Chapman seems to be a great choice for 1) those who get great merit scholarships making it much more affordable, 2) those with lesser academic goals, 3) those who are more interested in trade craft and below the line skills, 4) those who prefer a small school environment in a small town 1 1/2 hours from Hollywood, and 5) those who may not have been admitted to other top programs. As I’ve posted repeatedly, each student brings with her/him the talent and ambition and drive to succeed or not–no matter where one attends school</p>

<p>You really do Dodge a disservice to post such utter nonsense on USC’s forum.</p>

<p>USC is basically the best film school in the world. As good as Chapman’s new studio might be, it really isn’t better than USC’s, and won’t even come close for years to come (wont’ come close to UCLA or AFI either, focusing on film schools in Los Angeles.)</p>

<p>I imagine if Chapman ever started to get some clout in the industry, USC wouldn’t hesitate to update their facilities.</p>

<p>From what I have been able to determine Dodge College @Chapman University has the top most modern facilities that are “actually” used by the bulk of their undergraduate stutdetns, smaller student to teacher ratios and more hands on experience than USC or UCLA. USC is known as the greatest Film School in the world and there is a lot of networking available thru the alumni when getting work after graduation from USC. One may be better trained for work at Dodge College @Chapman University but USC has presently the greatest reputation. Dodge College admits 210 total Freshman each year (only 70 in the Film Production and only 30 in the TV Production/Broadcast Journalism). USC’s program major of Cinematic Arts Critical Studies and they accept 75 Freshman each year to this program; the entire USC School of Cinematic Arts school accepts a total of 200 Freshman per year. Although there is a very wide possibility of classes at USC to choose from the program is less directed than Dodge College and relies on the student to choose their classes (@USC). The journalism classes one would take would be at the at USC Annenberg School of Journalism.</p>

<p>[Lawrence</a> and Kristina Dodge College of Film and Media Arts](<a href=“http://ftv.chapman.edu/programs/soda...st_journalism/]Lawrence”>http://ftv.chapman.edu/programs/soda...st_journalism/) The TV Production/Broadcast Journalism major at Dodge College</p>

<p>[Lawrence</a> and Kristina Dodge College of Film and Media Arts](<a href=“http://ftv.chapman.edu/]Lawrence”>http://ftv.chapman.edu/) Click on the yellow link on this page that says “Watch Our Video Introduction”. This video is 5 years old and Dodge College is even better now.</p>

<p>Below are comments that discuss USC, Dodge College & NYU that I found on the web: </p>

<p>dara18 August 14, 2011 at 9:19 pm </p>

<h2>USC, UCLA and Chapman/Dodge are very similar. Not in how they run their program, but how they’re seen in the industry. Chapman is 3rd, but really catching up, and they’ve amazing facilities. The problem is, they’re all extremely competitive! It’s literally easier to get into Harvard (6% acceptance rate) than into any of those film programs, the acceptance rate is about 5% for each college. (To give you an idea, USC accepts about fifty into the director program, and twenty-five into the screenwriter program, out of over a thousand applicants each year. And you first must be admitted to USC, which is tough on its own.) </h2>

<p>Christopher C. Odom is a Director, Writer, Author in Nashville, TN, USA
UCLA is best known for their writers who dominate the summer movie screenwriting credits, USC is better known for their powerhouse directors, AFI often has incredible cinematographers, NYU is heralded for its East Coast filmmaker style, and Columbia is an all around great school with exceptional film theory for all programs. Any school you go to at the Big five will be an incredible experience for each program. You’ll also have big name professionals and heads of big companies teach courses or speak as guests because of the school’s notoriety. You cannot lose.
The downside to USC is that they run it like a studio. Only five people get to direct a thesis project if you are a graduate directing student. Every directing student comes in to be one of those five and then twenty or thirty people in the end do not get a thesis project, but get to help crew on the five people who did get to make one’s film. The upside to USC, is again, that they run it like a studio. USC is often unparalleled in its networking capacity and markets its students aggressively to the industry.
UCLA is most known for its screenwriters. USC might be capable of out-networking UCLA, but its writers cannot out-write UCLA writers. An average UCLA Graduate Screenwriting student will leave with eight feature length screenplays. UCLA screenwriters write a feature-length script in a 10-week quarter, which most resembles a real life 8-week writing assignment. USC screenwriters will write one feature-length screenplay over a period of one year. You do the math.
The Peter Stark Producing Program at USC is great for producing movie executives, but the UCLA Producing Program is great for teaching producers everything there is to know to go out there and just start doing it.
Similar to USC’s “only five will direct a thesis project”, AFI is even more hardcore. Not only are there are a limited number of thesis projects, not every filmmaker is always invited to come back to school for a second year. It is harder to get into any of these film schools than it’s to get into Harvard Law School, simply because Harvard takes a higher percentage of its applicants than the big film schools do, so for me AFI and USC really wasn’t worth getting cut or snubbed over after you had to already defeat the odds of winning the lottery to even get accepted. Having to win the lottery a second time just wasn’t desirable.</p>

<p>02-15-2011, 10:54 PM #9 </p>

<p>TOCproductions
Basic Member
I’ve been going through exactly the same process!</p>

<p>I don’t know if it is possible for you to tour the campuses of these schools, but if you can I HIGHLY recommend it. </p>

<p>I myself was pretty dead set on USC initially. I knew of their prestige and rep in the industry. However I also made sure to tour Chapman, because I had heard good things.</p>

<p>After the campus tours… my opinion and preference has shifted 100%. Chapman basically reached out and hugged me. Everyone was friendly, small student population, gorgeous campus. And the film school was AWESOME. I had a private tour (guess it was a slow day) from a Freshman in the program. He showed me completely through the studios, sound stages, foley room, motion capture studio, editing bays, audio mixing studios, 500 seat preview theater with 3D HD projectors… the whole 9 yards, everything top of the line. Students can access facilities 24/7. Seriously. Got an idea at 2 in the morning? Keycard into the building and start working. Additionally, alumni have access to equipment, resources, and stage space AFTER they have graduated!! Fill out a schedule form, and you are in! No rental charges, nada. That is seriously cool.</p>

<p>USC… is definitely a prestigious university. Massive campus, very educated students, but TONS TONS TONS of people. Medium city sized. As for the film school… my impression was that there was SO much money invested into equipment… that they are almost scared to let students near it. From the mouth of my ‘tour guide’ who actually mainly talked about admission; “Ya, we have awesome facilities! I wish i could show you, but they are behind a lot of locked doors which I don’t have keys to.” I felt that was very representative of the school. You have to take large numbers of GE classes before you really launch into the film program. Not so at Chapman; you take classes for your film major from freshman year on out, constantly. </p>

<p>Chapman may not have quite the rep that USC does, but they are RAPIDLY coming up in the industry. They have plans laid out for millions of dollars in expansion culminating in a ‘film village’ with backlot and even more sound stages, and are very aggressive in expansion programs; part of the benefit of all the tuition they charge, I guess. Speaking of tuition… they are several thousand dollars a year cheaper than USC. Not much, but every bit helps. </p>

<p>I’ve been pouring myself into this research for the last few months, but visiting made all the difference. If you have any questions about campuses or anything just let me know…
Best of luck!
Peter Cat
2011-08-08 18:53:09
University of Southern California</p>

<p>The richest film school in the world (alum George Lucas contributed $175 mill
ion, and alum Robert Zemeckis has given a bundle, too), USC probably has more
graduates working in the industry than any other school and has the greatest
support from the industry itself, with 10,000-plus alums who routinely donat
e millions for state-of-the-art facilities – and notable support from non-gr
aduate Steven Spielberg. Its Peter Stark Producing Program, under The Graduat
e producer Larry Turman, remains the premier venue for aspiring producers and
execs. Insiders were split when asked to choose between AFI and USC for the
No. 1 spot, with AFI winning largely on the basis of its choice student body.
But USC takes the candle when it comes to technical training. Says Dean Eliz
abeth M. Daley: “One of the hardest things to understand is the culture of fi
lmmaking. You’re not gonna get that out of a book. Come here and you’ll under
stand.” She’s right, thanks to unrivaled facilities, an emphasis on film hist
ory and technique and its great ties with Hollywood – a plus for some, but n
ot for those more interested in indie films. The upside: It’s a vast dream fa
ctory. The downside: It’s a vast dream factory.</p>

<p>DEGREES Critical studies, B.A., M.A., MFA and Ph.D. programs in everything fr
om film and TV to animation and digital arts</p>

<p>NOTABLE ALUMNI George Lucas (Star Wars), Ron Howard (A Beautiful Mind), Jon L
andau (Avatar)</p>

<p>“USC is run in many ways like a studio. The challenges that were given to us
had to do with the realities of the industry and financing, and I think those
were important lessons to learn.” – Lee Unkrich, director, Toy Story 3</p>

<hr>

<p>Peter Cat
2011-08-08 18:53:09</p>

<p>Chapman University Dodge College of Film & Media Arts</p>

<p>“We’re not a trade school,” says Dean Bob Bassett. “We’re focused on helping
young people find jobs – and that’s the hardest thing.” Students at the
Orange, Calif.-based campus operate like they’re at a miniature studio: The direc
tors direct, the writers write, the producers produce, and they work with PR
and advertising students taught by new faculty member Dawn Taubin, a former W
arners marketing exec.</p>

<p>sukahjoy, why are you posting this here? </p>

<p>Reposting mostly anonymous people’s posts/reviews here is strange, but even more strange is that not one of the posters you quote attended these programs or gives in-depth specific examples. So it’s like reading reviews from people who are not quite in the know. Sort of like people reviewing a movie who haven’t actually seen it yet, but have seen the trailers? KWIM?</p>

<p>There are many ways to get instruction, advice, and a great education in filmmaking. No one forces students to apply or attend any of them. But I’m curious why you are spending lots of time selling various programs (graduate, AFI, etc) on this forum?</p>

<p>Chapman U grants are so generous they beat out any other University by 3 times the amount. For example USC gives the average student only a few thousand dollars why Chapman gives the average student approx. $27,000 a year.</p>

<p>That is why many students whom were accepted at both USC & Chapman U end up going to Chapman. Would you rather pay $25,000/years in loans and cash at Chapman or $52,000/year at USC when you live on campus?</p>

<p>Beside that you probably get a better undergraduate education at Chapman with the small class size and dedicated caring Professors at Chapman.</p>

<p>Hi Madbean. I hope your day is going well.</p>

<p>Thank you for your reply. I was trying to bring some context to this discussion for high school students whom for the first time are trying to get information on the best Film & TV Production Universities to attend and narrowed down their search to USC, NYU and Chapman U. These high school seniors have not read all the threads that you have Madbean, with your 2,122 post history and years on College Confidential. I have spent the past year with my son and paid college counseling service going thru this process of searching for information and determining the best Film & TV Production Universities to attend. I personally went to UC Berkeley so I have no ties to any of these three (3) fine Universities. My son visited all three (3) of theses universities and will be attending Dodge College at Chapman U this fall.</p>

<p>FYI my post above was sent by mistake when I was writing it, here is the finish comment: Although Chapman U cost the same as USC ($55,000 per year) Chapman U grants are so generous they beat out any other University by 3 times the amount per my research. For example USC gives the average student only a few thousand dollars (if you are not in the top 15% of admittees) while Chapman gives the average student approx. $28,000 a year.</p>

<p>That is why many students whom were accepted at both USC & Chapman U end up going to Chapman. Would you rather pay $27,000/years in loans and cash at Chapman or $52,000/year at USC when you live on campus?</p>

<p>Besides that from what I have been able to determine you probably obtain a better undergraduate education at Chapman (see additional comments in first paragraph of my post above) with the small class size and dedicated caring Professors at Chapman. Note all classes at Chapman are taught by professors; no TAs.</p>

<p>Why would you believe that at Chapman “grants are so generous they beat out any other University by 3 times the amount?” That’s nonsensical. It’s clearly untrue.</p>

<p>Chapman University (2009-2010)
Average Amount of Aid
Grants: $22,996
Loans: $6,705</p>

<p>USC (2009-2010)
Average Amount of Aid
Grants: $25,345
Loans: $6,689</p>

<p>And there are obviously many schools like Stanford that give much more aid than USC or Chapman. I mean, USC’s endowment per student is triple Chapman’s, and there are many other schools who can best that number. Your child may have gotten a more generous package at Chapman, but your child is one data point and is not indicative of the total experience.</p>

<p>One of the benefits of going to a school like Chapman is smaller class sizes, but the average class size at Chapman is 23 to USC’s 26, not a tremendous difference. TAs do not teach classes at USC either.</p>

<p>I’m sorry but your stance that Chapman will get you a better education than SCA at USC appears to be based more on your personal perceptions and the fact that your son will be attending than on anything based on fact or reality.</p>

<p>…just checked on some of these numbers.</p>

<p>These are numbers as reported to the College Board.</p>

<p>The numbers are for the entire university, not just the cinema programs.</p>

<p>Acceptance rate for 2011</p>

<p>USC 23% (2012 18%)
Chapman 49.6%</p>

<p>Student Faculty Ratio</p>

<p>USC 9 to 1
Chapman 14 to 1</p>

<p>Freshmen Retention Rate
USC 97%
Chapman 88.2%</p>

<p>USC is leaps-and-bounds ahead of Chapman, and that’s coming from a Bruin.</p>

<p>This year my son was choosing between USC, Chapman, NYU, Emerson and LMU. He chose USC and will be a proud SCA student with a film production major. While all those schools were appealing to him (or he wouldn’t have applied to them) USC won his heart. The film school has incredible facilities, including an amazing set of buildings, top notch equipment, and talented faculty. The academics outside of SCA are also top notch. He wanted a great education in addition to great film credentials. He felt USC would fill both aspects the best of all the schools (for HIM). The networking available is (in my opinion) the best in the world. And importantly for him, he wanted to get an internship Freshman year in LA which would be more difficult to do from Chapman or even LMU. USC is a more competitive place than the others: with students competing for more limited admission spots, directing spots, and in many other aspects along the way. That does in many ways mirror the industry- professionals are constantly competing for the next job or opportunity. But this competition in school is not for everyone. At some schools it is much more collegial. ALL of the other programs mentioned above are top notch as well. But USC is consistently rated number one by industry professionals and the media. While reputation is not everything, it certainly doesn’t hurt either. I think Chapman has a fine program and is up and coming in the ratings. Emerson, in my opinion is WAY underrated and is one of the top programs in the country for film production. NYU is a great school-consistently rated at the top in a fabulous city, and LMU has an incredibly strong program- and is again, I think underrated. But does MY opinion of these schools matter?.. no, only in my limited circle. When getting those first jobs after college the reputation of your program and its alumni connections may matter. After that: it’s all about your drive and talent. </p>

<p>I think my son made the perfect choice for himself, and I think others made their perfect choice as well. I’m sure sukahjoy and gladiatorbird’s children made a great choice for Chapman (just to name two). On other posts I’ve read of family’s joy at LMU and Emerson. Many are thrilled by a film spot at NYU Tisch. And in the end, each student in these programs will likely thrive and flourish at their university of choice. This is NOT really a competition about what is the best program- but a searching for what is the best school and program for that individual student. Fit, fit fit. And I hope that when the choice is finally made by each student and family that each and every student and parent are as passionate about their choice as my son (and I) are about his. Let’s acknowledge that all of these schools are top notch programs and each has pros and cons for individual students. To paraphrase: If the School Fits, wear it! But there is no need to bash or denigrate the school you didn’t choose or who didn’t choose you. Admission at these schools is not granted to all deserving students, and the choice you make is not necessarily the best choice for someone else. Let’s celebrate all the opportunities out there and help these kids choose the best program for their individual needs, learning style and ultimate goals. There really are no bad choices here, only a plethora of good ones. Congrats to all the new film students, wherever you decide to attend.</p>

<p>Forget Chapman. Seriously, forget it.</p>

<p>NYU has an excellent program, but the connections you can get at USC by living in the ENTERTAINMENT CAPITOL IN THE WORLD will be invaluable to your future career.</p>

<p>To me, USC is a no-brainer. I am attended USC in the School of Cinematic Arts and you’d have to be a fool to turn down an opportunity like that.</p>

<p>To MaddenMD…great post…well said :)</p>

<p>As usual, MaddenMD puts the question in an appropriate light, there are many routes to success in a rapidly changing field, achievable at many schools. Partisan chearleading for any program being the best, most prestigious, etc. is understandable but counter productive. I find it exceptionably odd when Chapman chearleaders post aggressively on other school forums, it’s kinda like poking a stick at a sleeping bear. Talk nice at USC, at least while I am here I will say it is the best. Having said that, at least some of the 98% (or whatever it is) turned down at USC will find success at the not second rate LMU, Chapman, Emerson, even NYU.</p>

<p>But what about UCLA? A fantastic film program for a fraction of the cost of USC… especially if you’re a California resident. Their facilities are not as stunning and their brochures/outreach not as expensive… but they have great internships in the film industry, a beautiful campus, and as far as I hear from filmmakers I know, are right up there with USC, Chapman and NYU.<br>
But I haven’t seen them recommended once on this forum. It’s quite puzzling. They also have a masters program in music composition for film/media, started by very famous film composers, and those grad students collaborate with the film students. Does anybody understand why they are not being mentioned?</p>

<p>The OP wasn’t even considering UCLA…so why would anybody bring up UCLA on a USC forum??? If people are interested in UCLA, they probably would be posting on the UCLA forum.The film production program at USC is #1… Not UCLA’s . To my knowledge UCLA is more known for a good screenwriting program than their film production program… But I’m sure that someone with a child enrolled in SCA could explain more…</p>

<p>Musicmama: It is strange you would come to this forum AND prompt UCLA without answering the OP’s question. Shall we say rah! rah!</p>

<p>All my kids work in the business. My fil was extremely successful in the business. I was in the business. So…NYU is more experimental. My kids work with and/or have hired/repped people from SCA, Chapman and CalArts. The latter in a specialty. You an’t go wrong with SCA.</p>

<p>There is another reason no one brought up UCLA. The assumption is that we are talking about someone coming in as a freshman. UCLA doesn’t actually accept people into their undergrad film program until junior year (you apply as a sophomore). It is a small program, and they take 50% from within UCLA and 50% from outside. Being at UCLA already probably helps your chances, but isn’t a sure acceptance.</p>

<p>So, since we were talking about a freshman-type decision, UCLA isn’t really in the mix. Most kids who really, really want to major in film/IM/animation/etc. will apply to UCLA, but won’t take it over the other programs even though UCLA is a great program. Bird in the hand kind of thing… as well as most kids want to get started right away, not wait until junior year.</p>

<p>Hollywood Reporter film school rankings:</p>

<p>[USC</a> No. 1 on The Hollywood Reporter’s Second Annual List of the Top 25 Film Schools - The Hollywood Reporter](<a href=“http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hollywood-reporter-top-25-film-schools-usc-ucla-afi-353726]USC”>USC No. 1 on The Hollywood Reporter’s Second Annual List of the Top 25 Film Schools – The Hollywood Reporter)</p>