<p>"you will see ucsd has more top ten and top twenty ranked programs than usc"</p>
<p>ucchris, I saw you using this arguments over and over, can you list all the top 10 and 20 depratments from both UCSD and USC? Not only for the debate (since OP already got his answer), but I also like to know these. I know UCSD has a few very prestigous departments, especially in my field, but I don't have the whole picture. </p>
<p>If possible, could you note if it's undergrad or grad ranking?</p>
<p>Ucchris,</p>
<p>This post is for arguing alone:)</p>
<p>From princetonreview.com</p>
<p>UCSD:
Enrollment: 20,339
Average GPA: 3.98
Average SAT: 1239
Average ACT: 25
Student Faculty Ratio: 19:1 </p>
<p>USC:
Enrollment: 16,428
Average SAT: 1370
Average ACT: 30
Student Faculty Ratio: 10:1 </p>
<p>I don't really trust the reporting from UC, at least that 94% at UCSD are top 10% in high school is very suspicious. And your 1306 is for admitted not enrolled. </p>
<p>If SAT is not of enough indication, the 5 point gap in ACT should be significant enough. You also can compare SATII. Anyway, all data shows USC student body stronger than UCSD's. You can question it, but you will never be able to prove it otherwise.</p>
<p>As for the two rankings you mentioned, they have been ridiculed million of times. I understand someone will still resort to them, but I will sniff everytime I saw it . The times one is extremely flawed in methodology. It only sent out ~1200 (not accurate, but in the ball park) surveys to academia from 180 countries, 7/country. Why don't they just call the education secretaries from each country:) As you may know, researchers don't really care about anything other than their own field. The world top 500 one is pure joke, IN CHINA, I don't get (I probably can) why it sells here to somebody. It merely calculates the index for hardcore science and bio research production. Well it falls into UCSD's strength. </p>
<p>USC's strength, at least some of them, lies in the fields other than traditional academic area, therefore is underated in such kind of ranking, even the US news one. But I won't make that an excuse, so I am still waiting for you to show the top department list I asked in my last post. Actually I don't even know for sure what departments of USC is ranked that high.</p>
<p>UCSD's super strong departments are so obviously well known, it is like a fly staying on a bald head:) You can tell it right away, because it is on the bald head. Now you may get what I mean.</p>
<p>Maybe you'd be surprise to know that UCSD has top ten political science and econ departments?</p>
<p>"I don't really trust the reporting from UC, at least that 94% at UCSD are top 10% in high school is very suspicious. And your 1306 is for admitted not enrolled."</p>
<p>-actually 99% of ucsd students are in the top 10% of high school class, 84% of usc students are. that speaks something about the student quality. furthermore, you can not take specifics given by ucsd as fiction or possibly not accurate, then quote things states by usc as fact. the 1306 average is also single sitting, where usc's average, proclaimed as somewhere around a 1360 or 1370 is a multiple sitting average, which inflates their numbers over a uc's single sitting significantly. the 1306 admitted single sitting score and a 1370 admitted multiple sitting score are not far apart when computing their obvious differences.</p>
<p>"As for the two rankings you mentioned, they have been ridiculed million of times. I understand someone will still resort to them, but I will sniff everytime I saw it . The times one is extremely flawed in methodology. It only sent out ~1200 (not accurate, but in the ball park) surveys to academia from 180 countries, 7/country. Why don't they just call the education secretaries from each country As you may know, researchers don't really care about anything other than their own field. The world top 500 one is pure joke, IN CHINA, I don't get (I probably can) why it sells here to somebody. It merely calculates the index for hardcore science and bio research production. Well it falls into UCSD's strength."</p>
<p>-you may not like the rankings, i dont particularly like them either. but they are very relevent rankings, along with us news. probably those 3 are the most cited along with nrc. furthermore, private schools are at a great advantage in us news ranking according to their specific strengths which are weighed very heavy. as you know, the top 20 schools are all private other than # 20, which is berkeley. talk about a school being helped by ranking methodology, us news clearly helps privates over publics. even with these weighting methods used by us news which clearly benefit private schools, there is hardly any difference in rankings between usc and ucsd (#30 and #32). and yes, researchers do usually only care about their specific department or subject, and ucsd does have more top ranked programs than usc. most other overall rankings i have encountered place ucsd significantly higher than usc.</p>
<p>"USC's strength, at least some of them, lies in the fields other than traditional academic area, therefore is underated in such kind of ranking, even the US news one. But I won't make that an excuse, so I am still waiting for you to show the top department list I asked in my last post. Actually I don't even know for sure what departments of USC is ranked that high."</p>
<p>-are you argueing that us news underranks usc (a private)? the methodology applied by us news rankings clearly benefits private universities over publics. most individuals familiar with it would argue that it would hurt a school like ucla or ucsd far more than it would hurt a private such as usc. </p>
<p>"UCSD's super strong departments are so obviously well known, it is like a fly staying on a bald head You can tell it right away, because it is on the bald head. Now you may get what I mean."</p>
<p>-ucsd is very good at sciences, i agree, but it has other highly ranked programs like theatre and dance, poli sci, econ, engineering, ect., which have nothing to do with science.</p>
<p>*** i will look up us news ranking and nrc rankings for all the subjects they have listed and post them on here. it may take a bit for me to list them all, but i will list the general rankings for listed programs. </p>
<p>im not sure why you are attacking ucsd. if ucsd has only a couple strong programs on an otherwise "bald head" i cant even imagine what usc's head would look like. i have nothing against usc and feel it is a fine institution. im even applying to usc for grad and law school. i just feel it is not up to the overall academic quality of ucsd. furthmore the poster stated she was majoring in psyc or premed. premed clearly would be better at ucsd. im not sure about psyc, but i will list both usc and ucsd's rankings in that area as well.</p>
<p>Psychology:
UCSD- 16th
USC- 55th</p>
<p>School of Medicine:
(Research)
UCSD: 14th
USC: 32nd</p>
<p>(Primary):
UCSD- 7th
USC- 46th</p>
<p>School of Engineering:
USC-7th
UCSD-11th</p>
<p>Biological Sciences:
UCSD- 14th
USC- Not Ranked</p>
<p>Chemistry:
UCSD- 22nd
USC- 47th</p>
<p>Computer Science:
UCSD- 11th (2007)
USC- 27th (2007)</p>
<p>Geology:
UCSD- 11th
USC- Not Ranked</p>
<p>School of Business:
USC (Marshall)- 26th
UCSD- no business school, starting one this year i believe (Rady).</p>
<p>Applied Mathmatics:
UCSD- 31st
USC- Not Ranked</p>
<p>Mathmatics:
UCSD- 21st
USC- Not Ranked</p>
<p>Physics:
UCSD- 16th
USC- Not Ranked</p>
<p>Economics:
UCSD- 10th
USC- Not Rated</p>
<p>School of Law:
USC- 18th
UCSD- No Law School</p>
<p>English:
UCSD- Not Rated
USC- Not Rated</p>
<p>School of Public Affairs:
USC- 7th
UCSD- No Program</p>
<p>History:
UCSD- Not Rated
USC- Not Rated</p>
<p>Political Science:
UCSD- 7th
USC- Not Rated</p>
<p>School of Public Affairs:
USC- 7th
UCSD- No Program</p>
<p>School of Education:
USC- 18th
UCSD- No Program</p>
<p>Sociology:
UCSD- Not Ranked
USC- Not Ranked</p>
<p>*** Total Top 25 Programs:
UCSD- 11 (12 if you include research and primary as seperate disciplines)
USC- 5</p>
<p>*** Total Top 20 Programs:
UCSD- 9 (10 if you include research and primary as seperate disciplines)
USC- 5</p>
<p>***Total Top 15 Programs:
UCSD- 7 (8 if you include research and primary as seperate disciplines)
USC- 3</p>
<p>***Total Top 10 Programs:
UCSD- 3
USC- 3</p>
<p>*UCSD also had three #11 ranked programs.</p>
<p>*** those are the listed us news programs straight out of the us news book. if one of the schools did not have a program in the area i put no program. if they had a program and it was not ranked high enough to be listed i put not ranked. the programs usc did well or better than usc on, mostly were programs ucsd simply didnt have. if you break the academic subjects down into their sub sections, ucsd even pulls further ahead with the number of higher ranked programs than usc. i will post nrc rankings, which even further show ucsd as having an even greater number of higher ranked programs than usc. both the us news and even to a greater extent the nrc rankings speak for themselves. and if you only compare programs that both schools have, it the results show just how much better competing programs are at ucsd than usc.</p>
<p>correction.... actually i believe the us news computer science ranking (2007) just came out in april, and ucsd is ranked 13th. usc remained at 27th i also believe. ucsd is up from being in the low 20's in 2006 to number 13 in the new 2007 us news computer science ranking (<a href="http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/index.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/index.php</a> ---the article is under the news section). sorry if i posted that wrong on the original post ucsd is indeed the 13th not 11th ranked computer science program. the top 25, 20, 15, and 10 programs remain the same at:</p>
<p>*** Total Top 25 Programs:
UCSD- 11 (12 if you include research and primary as seperate disciplines)
USC- 5</p>
<p>*** Total Top 20 Programs:
UCSD- 9 (10 if you include research and primary as seperate disciplines)
USC- 5</p>
<p>***Total Top 15 Programs:
UCSD- 7 (8 if you include research and primary as seperate disciplines)
USC- 3</p>
<p>***Total Top 10 Programs:
UCSD- 3
USC- 3</p>
<p>*UCSD has 2 programs ranked at #11</p>
<p>ucsd also has more high ranked specific areas of study than usc, including (these are just some of the top 10 programs according to us news):</p>
<p>UCSD:
Oceanography (ranked #1)
Biomedical Engineering (ranked #2)
Econometrics (ranked #2)
Cognitive Psychology (ranked #3)
Comparitive Politics (ranked #3)
American Politics (ranked #6)
International Politics (ranked #6)
Sociology of Culture (ranked #6)
Geophysics (ranked #6)
Political Methodology (ranked #7)
Neuroscience (ranked #7)
Latin History (ranked #7)
Experimental Psychology (ranked #8)
Asian History (ranked #10)</p>
<p>another correction i listed school of public affairs twice... in which usc is ranked #7 and ucsd has no program, which inflated usc's totals. This changes the numbers of top programs to a total of:</p>
<p>*** Total Top 25 Programs:
UCSD- 11 (12 if you include research and primary as seperate disciplines)
USC- 4</p>
<p>*** Total Top 20 Programs:
UCSD- 9 (10 if you include research and primary as seperate disciplines)
USC- 4</p>
<p>***Total Top 15 Programs:
UCSD- 7 (8 if you include research and primary as seperate disciplines)
USC- 2</p>
<p>***Total Top 10 Programs:
UCSD- 3
USC- 2</p>
<p>*UCSD has 2 programs ranked at #11</p>
<p>I love how you cherry picked departments to list, along with choosing whichever was the weaker between USC grad and undergrad to compare with UCSD.</p>
<p>i listed all the departments listed in the us news graduate rankings book. all of these rankings should be at the graduate level. i didnt list specialities inside of each department as it would have simply taken to long to list. my listing of departmental rankings are all the departments ranked in the 2006 us news graduate ranking book, except the 2007 ranking for computer science which i saw was just updated this month as they only update it every 4 or 5 years instead of every year. i believe most of these departments, other than engineering and maybe one or two others at most, arent even ranked at the undergrad level, so of course the rankings would be graduate level. i didnt choose any usc undergraduate rankings, i wouldnt even know where to find undergraduate departmental rankings. im not sure how you can say i cherry picked any of the departments, these were all the departments listed in us news, they were not cherry picked at all. i didnt not break the departments down into their specialties as it would have simply took to long to list rankings of all the specialties and their rankings inside of each department. i listed a few of ucsd's specialties inside of the major depqartments in the second post, but that had nothing to do with ucsd and usc rankings on departments. the results speak for themselves. if you dont like the results take it up with us news, not with me. i just listed the graduate rankings as they appeared in my us news graduate book, i did not cherry pick any of them, that was all the departments listed. if you dont believe me grab a copy of the us news graduate rankings, youll see those are all the departments listed. i did not break the departments down into specialties in the ucsd vs usc listing of departments, of course, cause that would take far too long and would likely benefit ucsd anyhow. im not sure how you could say i cherry picked departments, those were all the sections listed in us news' graduate book, listed straight out of the book other than computer science which was updated recently, in 2007. and how could you say i picked between grad and undergrad, these were graduate rankings straight out of the graduate book. i did not pick and choose departments or graduate/undergrad rankings. these were all the departmental graduate rankings out of us news and world reports 2006 graduate ranking.</p>
<p>here is the link to the NRC set of rankings i promised. again, ucsd here has far more high ranked programs than usc. </p>
<p>Why would you use US News graduate rankings when the student is obviously an outgoing high school student? And what's with these "Total Top XX" departments lists? You selected ~20 departments, as if that's all each school has. You and I both know USC and UCSD have far more than ~20 departments. It's fallacious, and misleading to high schoolers looking for info on this board, to cherry-pick departments and then compute sums for each school as if you've looked up the ranking of EVERY department. Further, you accuse QW and I of not comparing apples to apples regarding SAT score. Yet in the sentence immediately next to that, you compare GPA's without disclosing that UCSD (just like USC differs in calculating SAT) calculates GPA differently. </p>
<p>Further, QW553 is correct in his/her assessment that US News (and the shoddy rankings you cite which no one considers seriously) underrates USC because it does not rank several departments where USC is a consensus top 10. For instance, US News and you do not take into account...</p>
<p>Film
USC School of Cinema-Television: #1
UCSD: nonexistent</p>
<p>Music
USC Thornton School: Consensus Top 10
UCSD: nonexistent are hardly noteworthy</p>
<p>Accounting
USC Leventhal School: #4
UCSD: nonexistent major for undergrad</p>
<p>Communication
USC Annenberg: Consensus Top 5, if not #1
UCSD: nonexistent or hardly noteworthy</p>
<p>Journalism
USC Annenberg: Consensus Top 5, if not #2 after Northwestern-Medill
UCSD: nonexistent or hardly noteworthy</p>
<p>Theatre
USC: Concensus Top 5
UCSD: nonexistent or hardly noteworthy</p>
<p>UNDERGRADUATE Business
USC: #9
UCSD: nonexistent major</p>
<p>Other programs where USC beats UCSD:
Architecture, Fine Arts, International Relations, Law...</p>
<p>What's funny is there are so many departments where USC is Top 10 and UCSD hardly offers anything... but we'll overlook that for argument's sake, right? What's interesting is that for the departments you listed where UCSD beats USC, there are also a plethora of schools better than UCSD. For the ones I point out where USC tops UCSD, USC is at the very top. In other words, if you're considering a major that would be considered within "hard academia," UCSD is good, but there's always UCLA, Berk, the Ivies, etc. which are mostly better. If you're considering a professional major, where USC excels, chances are it will be tops.</p>
<p>Also, you argue that US News' ratings methodology hurts public schools too. It does... and it should. UCSD should be penalized for having almost twice the faculty:student ratio that USC does. UCSD should be penalized for having a lower 4-year graduation rate. Etc.</p>
<p>So to sum things up, USC attracts a stronger student body. UCSD has more highly ranked departments within strict academia (though few are at the top of their fields) whereas USC has more hgihly ranked departments with a professional focus (and most are at the top). And UCSD suffers from simply being a public school - meaning fewer profs to students, harder to get classes, larger classes, etc.</p>
<p>Whoops,</p>
<p>It appears in the latest US News that UCSD actually had a higher 4-year grad rate than USC by a single percentage point, so I apologize for thinking the opposite. However, other facts gleaned from USNWR...</p>
<p>Faculty Resources
USC: 30
UCSD: 72</p>
<p>% of classes under 20
USC: 61%
UCSD: 47%</p>
<p>% of classes over 50
USC: 11%
UCSD: 28%</p>
<p>Selectivity Rank
USC: 19
UCSD: 27
... this means USC is considerably more selective in admitting freshman than UCSD, confirming my earlier statement that USC attracts a more talented and accomplished student body</p>
<p>Acceptance rate
USC: 27%
UCSD: 42% (almost half!)</p>
<p>Ucchris,</p>
<p>I didn't intend to insult UCSD. I don't know why you felt offended. Maybe the fly analogy, but it is just a description bumping into my head when I tried to explain it to you. I am sorry if that is the reason. I am not very versed in English, since I am a foreigner.</p>
<p>Your large post #24 didn't exactly address my points and questions. You just rehashed what you said. I have known your opinion already, but I am not convinced unless you answer my question.</p>
<p>Your #30 may convey some better ideas, but I won't read until you break them into paragraphs. Now let's exam the illogic in your ranking list. I won't get into details, and don't have much more facts other than you gave out. Just base on what you have.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>You used the graduate school ranking list to give suggestion to high school student to choose undergraduate college. Please note I am not arguing regarding this one case about the OP. He made a sound decision, and I congrats to him.</p></li>
<li><p>Even for the graduate program ranking, you played a tricky game to decompose or lump together some of the school and depratment, not the others. All your top departments but one can be lumped into on school - Letter&Science if I playd your game. But when you do that, your College of Letter & Science is defintely not top 10 caliber in the country. Even some of the departments you listed are not even a department, it is merely a graduate research direction, which has nothing related to undergraduate students. If you want to study Econometrics, Cognitive Psychology, Comparitive Politics, Sociology of Culture, Political Methodology, Experimental Psychology, even as an undergrad, go to UCSD, more power to you. No kidding.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>College of Letter, Arts and Science is, probably, the only weak link of USC, well, the strongest at UCSD. USC's college is weak primarily in bio-related research. But its teaching is not weak overall, especially compared to huge public schools.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The biomed department of UCSD is very good, partly due to the premier location where a lot of bio/med companies are. But as I said, another fly on the bald head. The whole engineering doesn't fare well even it got the donation from ol' Jacobs years ago. IMO, the top 10 department argument doesn't hold much water if you only have a handful of them and the whole school is not collectively strong, because for every top 10 department, you may have 5 lousy ones to make that sensible.</p></li>
<li><p>While you compared UCSD's strength to USC's weakness, you did omit what USC good at. Communication, top 10. Film and media producation, No 1. Bussiness (undergrad), top 10. Accounting, at least top 5. Engineering, I don't know for undergrad. These are just off the top of my head, and are what most of USC students work on. I am sure someone from USC can furnish you more. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>You can NOT say ucsd doesn't have that major, so let's not compare them. It is the wrong way to look at a large school. For example, Julliard does not have math department, but you can not say it is better than Harvard because it beat Harvard in music.</p>
<p>Enough, let's see:</p>
<p>Science, UCSD
Engineering, USC
Education, USC
Business, USC
Public admistration, USC
Communication & Journalism, USC
Film, USC
Theatre Dancing, UCSD
Student quality, USC
Teaching quality, USC
What else, USC:)</p>
<p>These have nothing to do with undergraduates, but your game:</p>
<p>Law, USC
Medince, UCSD.</p>
<p>Isn't it obvious USC beat UCSD handily?</p>
<p>Just relax, Chris, I am not attacking UCSD, just showing some perspectives of mine. Actually during the Ph.D student recruitment this years at our department, two of the brightest candidates are two girls from UCSD. We have great respect for them. I kind of agree with most people here, for Biology and Pre-med, UCSD is a great place.</p>
<p>So let's argue with more logic reasoning, and less emotion. I have almost used out my time quota on CC for today (too much work to do), but I will get back to you when I have time.</p>
<p>Mega beat me for writing, but I will take it:)</p>
<p>Good points about UC's GPA and top 10%. </p>
<p>I don't know the point why UC is doing that. It will take a coliseum of fools to believe that. Can you conclude that they are more excellent than Ivies? C'mon, 99% of UCSD students are top 10% of their classes. What kind of class? This stat is like the times' ranking and the world top 500, good for some entertainment.</p>
<p>of course i am going to use a graduate ranking, most of the rankings us news does are not at the undergraduate. furthmore, the poster is going to be a psyc and/or premed major. ucsd trumps usc in these areas. furthermore, the areas you listed are subsections of larger departments. you post all sciences together in one area for ucsd (calling them simply "sciences"), then post all of usc's sub section strenghts as different areas, such as school of education, communications, ect all seperate. get a us news grad ranking, the main departments, not sub departments, show exactly what i posted. if you get into specifics, dont lump all sciences in one area, then list subsections that usc is good at all seperate. ucsd has more top rated programs. if you get into subsections, ucsd has even more top rated prorams. WHERE DID YOU GET THAT USC HAS THE #1 RATED UNDERGRAD BUSINESS PROGRAM? That is NOT the case. you cannot just make up facts on here to back up your point. further i stated usc and ucsd compute different gpa, i said ucsd is a capped weighted gpa, while usc unweighted is a 3.7-3.8 unweighted, which computes very similarly to ucsd is you use the same formulas. both usc and ucsd's weighted gpa's are just above 4.0. just as a 1306, single sitting sat computes very similarly to a 1360 or 1370 multiple sitting sat.<br>
Where did you get that usc beats ucsd in international relations? UCSD international politics is ranked #6. usc is not even listed in us news graduate book. WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THESE FACTS? ucsd clearly has more, higher ranked programs than usc. you cant lump sciences all together, then list communications and public administration sperately. if you want to list all areas and all subsections ucsd simply has more high ranked programs. most of what ucsd beats usc in, usc has the programs and simply is not nearly as good, much of what usc beats ucsd in, ucsd has no department, where usc has the departments and simply isnt good at them. usc is very good in what it is good at, such as film, law, engineering, ect. but it does not have the sheer number of top 20 programs ucsd has. if you wanna play top programs, these are just a few, i will look through the us news book later and get even more to list:</p>
<p>UCSD:
Oceanography (ranked #1)
Biomedical Engineering (ranked #2)
Econometrics (ranked #2)
Theatre and Dance (ranked #2)
Cognitive Psychology (ranked #3)
Comparitive Politics (ranked #3)
American Politics (ranked #6)
International Politics (ranked #6)
Sociology of Culture (ranked #6)
Geophysics (ranked #6)
Political Methodology (ranked #7)
Neuroscience (ranked #7)
Latin History (ranked #7)
Experimental Psychology (ranked #8)
Asian History (ranked #10)
Economics (ranked #10)
Geology (ranked #11)
Computer Science (ranked #11)
Biological Sciences (ranked #14)
Psychology (ranked #16)
Physics (ranked #16)
Mathmatics (ranked #21)
Chemistry (ranked #22)</p>
<p>School of Medicine (Primary):
UCSD: 7th
School of Medicine (Research):
UCSD- 14th</p>
<p>*School of Engineering:
USC-7th
UCSD-11th
*not exactly a huge advantage for usc in Engineering. most of what ucsd beats usc in, it beets it by a substantial amount. usc beats ucsd in many areas you listed in which ucsd doesnt even have a department or area of study. ucsd simply has more high ranked programs, usc however does have many high ranked professional programs. but this still does not elevate it the sheer number to high ranked programs ucsd has. i will list more of ucsd's (us news') highly ranked programs later. i love how you doubt what ucsd posts as their stats, but then take usc's posted stats as fact. hillarious. 99% of ucsd students are in the top 10% of class, 84% of usc students are in the top 10% of class. furthermore, if you look at nrc, the difference becomes clearer between to two institutions. ucsd simply owns usc in their 41 academic area rankings. And Teaching Quality???? come on, ucsd has 10 nobel laureates faculty members on campus right now. how many does usc have. do they even have 1??? yea usc doesnt attract a better faculty than ucsd, not even close. look national american academy of arts and sciences, and national academy of sciences memberships. usc is a joke. this is ridiuclous, the facts speak for themselves.</p>
<p>Go to UCSD. Great campus and 5 year masters program.</p>
<p>ucchris,
Grad school and Undergrad rankings are VERY different. You can't go by that whe comparing them for undergrad. For example, University Iowa is widely regarded as the best grad school for creative writing but their undergrad major isn't highly ranked. I believe USC is closer to UCLA that UCSD. I personally would pick USC over UCSD for anything except Oceanography or Marine Bio or some other life sciences. That is, unles you are in state. In that case UCSD would be better financially but if that isnt an issue (or for out of state students) USC is better (except for the subjects i mentioned already). However there are other factors to consider-- L.A. or San Diego is a big one.</p>
<p>What UC-San Diego Students Say About... </p>
<p>Student Body
Because of UCSD's prominent premed and engineering programs, "most students here are goal-oriented nerds who like to study all the time." Notes one undergrad, "The typical student is an Asian or Caucasian biology or engineering student that spends 60 hours a week studying, .0002 hours a week socializing with other people, .003 hours a week bathing, and the rest of the time is spent playing Counter-Strike?." The school is also home to "lots of stoners, and most of them are chill," as well as "a strong religious community." The school is large enough for each subpopulation to create its own cozy community. </p>
<p>Academics
University of CaliforniaSan Diego (UCSD), most students agree, "is dedicated to math and the sciences," the departments in which it has built its reputation as a statewide powerhouse. Pre-meds and engineers agree that it's Valhalla (that is, if your idea of Valhalla involves dawn-to-midnight studying); others temper their enthusiasm, telling us that "academically, it varies. I always hear how fabulous this place is for science majors, but nonscience majors get the shaft." Which is too bad, since there are other solid departments here; they simply take a back seat to the star attractions. Like most prestigious math and science schools, "UCSD does not focus its energy on the undergraduate experience. It works to maintain the happiness of its faculty and the administration, often at the cost of student happiness." Because many classes involve lectures by profs and discussion sections led by TAs, "how much you get out of a class is really determined by how good your TA is, not the professor." While some TAs are excellent, others "do not know the class material thoroughly and tend to confuse us." No wonder one engineer told us that "when you get into college, you have to learn to be proactive. You literally teach yourself in a lot of the classes." Students are much more bullish on UCSD's administration, thanks largely to the six-college system, which divides the large university into smaller schools. "What is great about UCSD is its college system. It is really like six small liberal arts colleges all located next to each other," writes one student. Many here warn that the quarterly academic calendar really ratchets up the pressure; "once third week hits, you have papers/midterms every week until finals." </p>
<p>Campus Life
Students at UCSD agree that theirs is not the typical college experience. "The university definitely suffers from a lack of social life," most here agree, the combined result of a hardworking student body and inhospitable surroundings. It's the kind of place where "for fun, a lot of people are glued to their computers playing computer games or talking on AIM?." Hometown La Jolla offers no help; explains one student, "La Jolla is extremely snobby. They won't let fast food restaurants or new movie theaters be built. In general, without a car at UCSD, you aren't going to get to do anything." There is a Greek system here, but "La Jolla banned a Greek Row and won't allow for them to own houses." Adds one student, "The major problem is that rent is so high in this area that there is no concentrated student population other than on campus." Because of the lack of any sense of community at UCSD, "there is no school spirit." On the bright side, "we live in paradise because the beaches are so close. Surfing is very popular. So are intramural sports." Those fortunate enough to have cars report "a great indie movie, art, theater, and music scene in San Diego," but add that "the best concerts are mostly 21+, so too bad for 18-year-olds." But frosh still manage to get their kicks. As one freshman put it, "The border is half an hour away, and clubs in Tijuana offer drinking and dancing for the 18- to 20-year-olds. What do you think we do?" </p>
<p>What USC Students Say About... </p>
<p>Student Body
"There is a huge mix of students at USC," undergraduates tell us. "You have everything from rich daddy's girls to minority students from the poorest LA neighborhoods on scholarships." The most conspicuous campus contingent is "the beautiful people," the wealthy kids referenced by those who dub USC "the University of Spoiled Children." While it is difficult to walk across campus without spotting "the blond-haired, blue-eyed surfer types who are either ridiculously skinny and tan or finely built and tan, who ride skateboards, go to frat parties, talk on cell phones, and wear Abercrombie and Fitch," they only represent part of the story. According to the Irvine Quarterly, USC culls more than one-quarter of its enrollment from families in the bottom third of annual income. Also mixed in among California's future business elite are "thousands of cinema students, atypical students who happen to be a large percentage of the population, so there's a great mixing of the whole spectrum of people." </p>
<p>Academics
"In a city that 'pays a thousand dollars for a kiss and fifty cents for your soul,' [University of Southern California)] is a hip, urban oasis where the creative theater/film/artsy types easily befriend business/accounting/premed types in the name of the Trojan family," writes one student. We couldn't have said it better ourselves. A hip environment, a broad range of academic offerings (including one of the nation's preeminent film schools), and a sense of school pride fermented by success on the football field and reaching perfect vintage in the alumni network are the central ingredients of the USC formula. It is one that engenders a ton of school spirit. "Once a Trojan, always a Trojan. School spirit is by far this school's greatest strength," asserts one of the university's many boosters. Those who disagree wouldn't downplay Trojan fervor. Rather, they'd simply prefer to single out "the fact that USC is academically strong in so many diverse fields." The school's "interdisciplinary approach to academics;" or the "hands-on learning experience, which brings professors and administrators (most of whom are required to teach an undergraduate course, including our president) together with students on a regular basis," are all popular among the student body. Best of allas far as the many career-minded undergraduates are concernedUSC is the school that keeps on giving long after graduation because "USC is all about the connections. Our alumni network is amazing, and the alumni are so successful." </p>
<p>Campus Life
"We're in a large city, so much of the 'student life' is off campus," USC undergraduates tell us, adding, "You get bored quickly if you don't have a car or access to friends who have cars." As one student puts it, "LA is a Trojan's playground, if you don't mind driving to get there. There's very little to do in USC's part of Los Angeles, so Trojans usually drive to Beverly Hills, Hollywood, and Santa Monica." Westwood, "UCLA's backyard, is another popular site for Trojans. It's hard to tell the Bruins apart from the Trojans, besides that Trojans are wearing cardinal and gold, and we just tend to look better." The neighborhood surrounding USC is not a favored destination. Students comment that the "seedy downtown LA [locale] is not that bad, and as long as you stay within a five-block radius and stay smart, you'll be okay." Unfortunately, the surrounding area offers little in the way of student-friendly diversion, except for "The Row, [or] to LA kids, 28th Street. Almost all Greek houses are located on one street, with nothing else. It is famous for its parties on Thursday nights because campus dies down on Friday." Students are also "very involved in collegiate sports (especially football)" and on-campus lectures and movie showings. One undergraduate writes, "There's always an advance screening somewhere that you get handed tickets to on the way to class."</p>