Students in all fields should learn to reason, write and converse.
And some make is sound like anyone who doesn’t major in - and work in - STEM fields is doomed to a life of making specialty coffees.
Personally I think it’s wonderful that, especially in IT, people are not forever defined by what they chose to study at age 18. I’m always asking my co-workers how they got where they are. I earned a Math/CS degree (from a liberal-arts based school) and I’m now running the PMO for a high-tech company. I found that while I love being around tech people, I needed a more interactive role than coding. I have project managers working for me with degrees in engineering, history, you name it. We have coders working for us with biology degrees, master’s degrees in CS, and some with no degree at all. Our company is always looking for people with potential - not just people who can check off certain educational/work experience boxes. I feel very fortunate to be in such an environment.
The polarization seems artificial, yet in some circumstances it drives a lot of decision making (around majors, college choice and career goals). Articles like this may serve a purpose.
I cannot speak for anyone else, but I absolutely have have felt an attitude of "STEM is the only Route of success/happiness/a fulfilling life from many posters/threads on this forum. As the parent of an arts major, this sometimes makes me laugh, or shake my head. Nice to see some additional anecdotal evidence to trot out to the well meaning “oh, but she, so smart, and was always so good at math/science, why are you ‘letting’ her major in…”. For me, it was never a problem - perhaps b/c I was a history major 25 years ago. (When all anyone talked about was the need to be a business major and get an MBA in order to have a successful/happy/fulfilling life). Or perhaps b/c I fall into the “college is for education” group
[sarcasm]I am shocked to learn that smart, talented people are successful independent of educational background[/sarcasm]
deleted, wrong thread
That is quite a stretch! Isn’t the reality --as described in the linked story-- that the “new” tech industry is maturing and has started to rely on skills that transcend the … expectations that the industry only functions with CS majors? How long was it that Google lauded its hiring of art majors?
Is the CS major about to vanish and lose its attraction? Not at all! It is, however, a grave error to assume that CS majors have a stronghold on the “tech” jobs as companies routinely hire kids who graduates from not much more than a hacking farm --call it lab if you wish-- or simply learned the skills on their own. It is a field that is particularly prone to reward PROVEN skills over the nature of the degree, and the mere fact of holding an engineering or CS degree is hardly sufficient to parlay the paper into a lucrative career.
In the end, there is a lot more grey area that one might think. Companies value employees who are resisting being painted with a thick brush: the STEM graduate who happens to not only think straight but is able to present a cogent argument or the Russian Lit major who DOES understand the tech field or the Psych major who turns out to be a master salesman.
There are plenty of paths to the top of the mountain for the ones who … try hard enough. Showing up with a stack of badges on the vest is not a guarantee of success. Too many are lulled into believing that what one picks up at school during four (or more) years of middling instruction is a ticket to riches.
On a last note, I am not sure why most everyone thinks that the STEM classes are necessarily harder than the “fuzzy” classes. Looking how the quants are bending over to avoid certain general requirements and show great difficulties with reading and writing paints a different image. Of course, the reverse is also true as English majors will scout the catalog for classes such as Math for Non-Math people aka Math for Dummies.
Perhaps for people who has been in high tech for a long time, I have, and I can tell you that one of the architect at a high tech company that I’ve worked at got a degree in pharmacy. And there are people who never had any degree either. But for the middling, non talented nerds, perhaps a degree in engineering/ CS is helpful.
STEM classes are not harder but certainly more time consuming and less influenced by non objective grading. But my nerdy kid excels in GE subject, in fact she beats her sister, who is an artsy kid with a comp lit degree in French. Gasp!
Regarding IT, for the umpteenth time, you don’t need a degree for IT.
I don’t care if somebody from Ohio keeps posting the same nonsense over and over again. And don’t argue with me either, I’m just as stubborn. So there!
I sat next to an IT manager during the dot com bubble and she called the local community colleges to find talent, salary was in the 6 figure salary, back in 2000 time frame. It could be higher now.
Of course it is, but history might not be kind to the people who moved from the middling schools to a cubicle where their lack of talent would be buried into a massive project. If the news is often about the wonderful world of opportunities in Silicon XXX, should we forget that the talks about outsourcing engineering jobs to lower cost parts of the world still exist in more mature industries?
We hear a lot about how an expensive degree in an obscure field is a sure passport to earning stripes as a barista at Starbucks or being the next Penny at the Cheese Factory, but are we sure that the same jobs are not filled with CS majors who are waiting for their big app to explode.
Again, lots of shades of grey!
PS If I recall correctly, Penny landed a good job in the pharmaceutical industry. How much of a promotion did the geniuses get at Caltech in the meantime? 
“Tech” aka Software/coding/app development is really only one aspect or branch of a STEM universe. It actually irritates me that “Tech” has been co-opted to designate such a narrow field. Designing and building the ubiquitous Drones, working on the Connectome or other brain research, Building new bridge concepts or increasing composite percentage for lighter, more fuel-efficient rockets and aircraft, providing answers to feed the world or house its people, providing the internet communications infrastructure: these are some examples of STEM-related tasks awaiting current students. They have high technical content, yet are not “Tech” jobs. To assume that the skill set required to take these on can be learned by studying Yeats or the Napoleonic wars is disingenuous.
It seems that many of the top schools require not just good Critical Thinking, but also impressive Math skills to be admitted to study liberal arts. Similarly, they require stellar skills in reading and writing to be admitted to study Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics. Of course these students have a lot to contribute where the requirement is smart, efficient, capable people.
Tom Scholz, of the band Boston, sometimes wears his Alma Mater tee-shirt (MIT) when he plays a concert. So here is an example of a classic STEM major (Mechanical Engineering) working in a high-paying position in a Liberal Arts dominated field. It cuts both ways, as it should.
Where specific knowledge and experience is needed (STEM or non-STEM) you are not going to see that kind of crossover.
A corporation doesn’t build a commercial drone without scores of non-engineers at work. Maybe, if it’s you and some friends in a garage, just for the heck of it. (Or for a school project.) That little model, after testing, could sit cute on someone’s desk without the rest of the team.
I love engineering sorts, the curiosity and etc. But it’s indefensible to suggest an engineering major is competent in everything. School only tests from an academic perspective. It doesn’t guarantee more, once you’re out in the real world.
“it’s indefensible to suggest an engineering major is competent in everything.” Who is saying that? It’s common sense that even in engineering companies and on engineering projects, there are going to be roles for non engineering. people.
@lookingforward, the suggestion is that Liberal Arts majors make just as good coders (sometimes better) as CS majors. Therefore, by extension, the discussion is that Liberal Arts majors can be competent leading up Tech programs. I am pointing out that some technology leadership positions require tech education; just as some liberal arts leadership jobs need liberal arts training and success.
No one is arguing whether everything needed to run a company or sell a commercial product; from marketing to accounting to technician-level assembly to finances, etc.; can be best accomplished with a STEM background or degree. That concept is not even on the table of this discussion.
However, leadership in a technology role is under discussion. There are many STEM jobs that do require STEM training. Therefore, throwing out the STEM-training baby with the Tech-jobs-by-liberal-arts-trained-folks bathwater is a red herring. Maybe for coding/IT/App Development; but not for ALL technology-related jobs! The same is true in all fields.
Xiggi, the outsourcing of jobs will happen to any major. Liberal arts or STEM. The best will survive the job market melt down when it happens.
Who’s limiting this to coders?
Of course there are stem jobs that require stem training. But this convo was not limited to either that or “leadership in a technology role.”
Even if it were about leadership, I could still argue that what is required is a high level of tech comprehension, an adeptness with the sort of teamwork, the analytical skills and ability to grasp process- not necessarily the hands on ability to design.
I have never been worried about his. Never will be.
"Throughout the major U.S. tech hubs, whether Silicon Valley or Seattle, Boston or Austin, Tex., software companies are discovering that liberal arts thinking makes them stronger. "
Well duh.
I do not disagree in general terms (and especially when assuming the full extent of Liberal Arts and not its narrow and incorrect definition) but I think that the outsourcing of people paid to think and be creative in verbal contexts will be quite a bit harder as long as “we” will see gems such as “All your base are belong to us”