USNA, NROTC and Navy/Civilian Career

Colleges & Universities A-Z Service Academy Parents
1

<p>OK…Let’s see how this works:
Thought it would be fun and informative to hear different perspectives and pros/cons of USNA versus NROTC at a top 20 University (particularly in Engineering). It is also assumed that for comparison sake, the student excels scholastically (say… top 25% of class or better) at either school, and he/she has no particular issues to hold back overall performance in either program.</p>

<p>It can also be assumed for comparison that advance degrees will be obtained at top universities in a timely manner to not hold back promotions and/or assignment capability.</p>

<p>Let’s also assume that motivation is proper in the end. No wrong reasons or fears of plebe summer, etc factored into the decision (got to cut variables somewhat to make this work).</p>

<p>Lastly, let’s assume that college expenses are NOT an issue.</p>

<p>Some initial statements/questions to get things started:</p>

<li><p>Legacy would indicate that USNA grads would have enhanced ‘fast track’ to O-7 in a long navy career. Recent inquiry into this ‘affect’ on career promotion tracks have suggested this ‘benefit’ no longer exists to the extent that if you are a top performer, your Alma Mater won’t make a significant difference in your career choices and/or promotions.</p></li>
<li><p>It is OK to point out the obvious advantages/disadvantages to both programs because the idea is to come up with a decision matrix for a hard look at personal motivations/de-motivations for the differences to assist one in making a decision.</p></li>
<li><p>Career track choices will complicate matters of this discussion, so I would like to stick to the most common choices for this evaluation. They would be, SWO, SWO-Nuke, Sub, Sub-Nuke, Pilot/NFO, Marines. Of course if you have specific examples of other career choices that are pertinent to USNA versus NROTC, that is fine also.</p></li>
<li><p>Try to remain objective in remarks and keeping them brief will help. Some subjects will be hard to not personalize, and that is OK, especially for those with direct Navy/Marine experiences or stories of such.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>.</p>

2

<p>I realize this is not what you are looking for, but this reminds me of the previous thread concerning tough choices- like MIT vs USNA? Best of luck~ choices are great, but can be hard.</p>

3

<p>Why do you limit the discussion to USNA, NROTC and Navy/Civilian Career?</p>

<p>I understand the implied rationale for the discussion to be focused on Navy career options vs Army or Air Force. But if the purpose is to illuminate the college paths into the Navy, it would be approprioate to include USMMA in the discussion as well.</p>

<p>If the purpose is simply to have the discussion from a USNA perspective, then perhaps the thread would be more appropriate in the Naval Academy Forum</p>

4

<p>Seems that USMMA might not be in the running- from what I recall, MIT, w/ w/o NROTC, and USNA apparently are.....
Ah, "tough choices" here we go....again!</p>

5

<p>No...here you go again...;)
Anyway, I have no problem with other academies in the mix, but one of the big questions still is USNA vs. ROTC for making O-7.</p>

<p>I also have no problem with candidates chumming in here. It's just that experience is what is being solicited, and I thought the parents foum would draw more of that.</p>

<p>Decided to cross post here:<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=1757753#post1757753%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=1757753#post1757753&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

6

<p>O-7 is at least 25-30 years after graduation. So much can change between now and then IMO its really not something worth worrying about. Figure out where your kid is going to be happiest and have the best chance to excel now.</p>

<p>Zaphod, any thoughts?</p>

7

<p>Waving to LFWB dad!!!</p>

<p>I posted on the naval academy board:</p>

<p>Seems like our sons have the same choices to make?</p>

<p>We have been going back and forth with the same discussions. NROTC pointed out the opportunity for more majors, cross registration, more graduate level courses while an undergrad and a different diploma. Academy grads suggest the experience will be better, more comraderie, more athletics, more leadership, more travel and maybe more support for grad school later on.</p>

<p>As a single mom, helping him with the decision will be hard. Feels like I am flying blind on this one. Friend of the family just got promoted to 07 Navy and he went OCS, graduated ASU with a business degree, and has been a pilot. Son's grandpa also OCS with an English degree, also retired fighter pilot. They both refer to the academies as the "trade" schools; where you go to learn to fly a plane, drive a boat...
So we know their bias, they both opt for the MIT, Harvard degree with ROTC.</p>

<p>Son does not have any preconceived notions, so no bias here. </p>

<p>I will be hoping for some great posts!!</p>

<p>So I was heading to the sentiment LFWB expressed. That as far as a career and promotion that is kinda far down the road. Was looking more to the experience he would have for the next 4 years and possibly grad school.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

8

<p>Granted...it is a lonnnnggggg way down the road. Curiously enough, it seem this is a point of contention for many still... It will be interesting to here other views.</p>

<p>Absolutely, 5 years and out is more likely than not for the average USNA/NROTC/OIC grad I suppose (no actual data claimed here). So that perspective is also important. Although USNA does not want you to apply/attend if you have other than long career intentions! I guess I was trying to stay true to that idea originally. It would be nice to here perspectives on the shorter career differences also.</p>

9

<p>katwkittens, has your son also been accepted to MIT or Harvard? if that's the case, then he and i might be ending up in the same NROTC unit with Dad'2B's son...then again, we might all choose USNA and there we go!</p>

<p>shawna</p>

10

<p>"Although USNA does not want you to apply/attend if you have other than long career intentions!" </p>

<p>How did you reach this conclusion? Is it written on the USNA webpage somewhere? </p>

<p>DeepThroat</p>

11

<p>Page 5 of 2005-2006 Catalog:
"We look for well rounded candidates. Individuals who demonstrate character, academic smarts, physical toughness and potential to
not only excel as midshipmen at the Naval Academy, but who will also excel as officers after graduation and will likely make a career
out of the Navy or Marine Corps. A healthy balance of all these aspects is considered in our admissions boards." Admiral Rempt</p>

<p>Still looking for the even more defined reference I saw somewhere official.</p>

<p>Of course...it is also in the Mission statement!</p>

12

<p>Sorry to be showing up so late for this...</p>

<p>
[quote]
O-7 is at least 25-30 years after graduation. So much can change between now and then IMO its really not something worth worrying about. Figure out where your kid is going to be happiest and have the best chance to excel now.</p>

<p>Zaphod, any thoughts?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That is entirely correct, and the beliefe that USNA somehow gives you a fast track to promotion is nothing more than fantasy.</p>

<p>As for the choice between USNA and ROTC, I'm afraid I'm quite biased. To me, there IS no choice. USNA all the way. Period.</p>

<p>You know how the best are always put upon by those who wish they were? Well, you never see USNA guys seriously (as opposed to jokingly) dumping on ROTC guys just for being ROTC. You DO see ROTC guys doing that to USNA guys all the time.</p>

<p>I've been to USNA, and I've served with ROTC guys. I've seen diamonds and turds come from both. I'd STILL pick USNA any day of the week and 10 times on I-Day.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
As for the choice between USNA and ROTC, I'm afraid I'm quite biased. To me, there IS no choice. USNA all the way. Period.

[/quote]
Amazing how a few months and a new job can change one's perspective eh? ;)</p>

<p>Or is it that North Carolina air? :)</p>

14

<p>In all sincerity, sometimes one forgets.</p>

<p>It's when you look back, or as I mentioned in the other thread, GO back, that you remember and realize what that little sheet of paper (which, incidentally, is on the floor behind me in my office waiting to be hung in its new home) means.</p>

<p>I wouldn't trade it for a Ph.D from MIT or an M.D. from John's Hopkins.</p>

<p>Period. :)</p>

15

<p>Zaphod: like so many of your other comments, that last post will, too, be saved- and resurected for one of those potential "downer calls" that will no doubt come at some point during plebe year- and no doubt it will offer just a glimpse that things, while hard, are not impossible, and worth the struggle. As always, thanks- your insights are invaluable! </p>

<p>ps- if I were you, I would start saving the stuff you write - organize them by topic- and publish them! I would happily plunk down $$$ to read "The USNA- From A by Z!!!" ;)</p>

16

<p>
[quote]
Zaphod: like so many of your other comments, that last post will, too, be saved- and resurected for one of those potential "downer calls" that will no doubt come at some point during plebe year

[/quote]
</p>

<p>They will come during Plebe Year, AND AFTERWARDS. Trust me!</p>

<p>
[quote]
and no doubt it will offer just a glimpse that things, while hard, are not impossible, and worth the struggle.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>My best friend in high school once wrote me a letter in response to my whining (yes, looking back I can rest assured that I was WHINING) about how tough it was at NAPS. His response to that one item was only on sentence out of a very long letter, but I still remember it, 20 years later:</p>

<p>"Of COURSE it's hard! WHAT BLOODY F**KING GOOD WOULD IT BE OTHERWISE, YOU IDIOT?"</p>

<p>Ah, Dan, you long-haird, smelly, communist, heavy-metal headbanger, you! Do you have any idea how close I was to quitting when I got your letter? Do you know that I haven't forgotten it?</p>

<p>
[quote]
As always, thanks- your insights are invaluable!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You're very welcome. Glad I could help. :) </p>

<p>
[quote]
ps- if I were you, I would start saving the stuff you write - organize them by topic- and publish them! I would happily plunk down $$$ to read "The USNA- From A by Z!!!"

[/quote]
</p>

<p>LOL! Too funny! :D</p>

<p>You know, there's something else you folks currently at USNA can think about. In 1998, I returned to USNA for the first time in a LONG time. I took my then-new bride (now ex) with me. We went to the visitor's center (which was completely new), and on the second deck found an interactive panel where one can search for and pull up Alumni. I went and looked myself up.</p>

<p>There I was:</p>

<p>Zaphod
91****
General Engineering</p>

<p>It was then, seven years after graduating, and two years after leaving the Navy, that it hit me: I HAD MADE IT. I HAD GRADUATED. I began looking up classmates. They had made it, too. I began looking up other classmates who HADN'T made it, to see if they had at least made honorable mention.</p>

<p>Nothing. They were gone. They had never existed. Guys I had lived with, sweated with, bled a bit with, cursed with, partied with, studied with, sweated exams with. Guys who had held me in formation while running when I wanted to drop out. Guys who had taught me some nuance of calculus, but then had been ac-boarded over EE. My wife wondered why I had tears in my eyes. </p>

<p>Because it was all such a waste. They deserved to be there (in my view) just as much as I did. I would have preferred to see their names in Memorial Hall than nowhere at all.</p>

<p>So think about it: Never give your friends, your CLASSMATES (which means more than "friend" could ever hope to) the opportunity to come seeking your name only to find "No match found." You exist! You are THERE, and by God, if you got IN, you can GRADUATE!</p>

<p>Never quit, ever, because you'll never forgive yourself, and never give the a$$holes in the administration any reason to drag you kicking and screaming out of Bilger's Gate.</p>